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My Experience With Hackingdojo Ripped Off My Money

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SephStorm

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Post Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:54 am

Re: My Experience With Hackingdojo Ripped Off My Money

Logically, I have to agree with the above poster. It is unlikely that you are ENTITLED to a refund, however, I encourage you to work with the site admin when he is healthy to reach a solution.

Now, to prevent such an issue in the future, you may want to contact the vendor and explain your intent, and your request, and you may be able to work something out.

I hope this provides some perspective.
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prats84

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Post Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:59 am

Re: My Experience With Hackingdojo Ripped Off My Money

Leaving the Yet issue of refund at a debate.
I am not debating wether the money should be a refund or not but what Yet is trying to say is the way HackingDojo deals with this kind of situations is not correct.

What about my issue?
I didnt even get to start the course. I waited for course confirmation details and nothing came. All the refund emails were ignored.
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venom77

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Post Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:48 am

Re: My Experience With Hackingdojo Ripped Off My Money

Wow.

I got through as much of this thread as I could take.

The bottom line is this:


- Yes, you are absolutely, 100%, allowed to ask for/request a refund for whatever you want, regardless of what your reasons are.

- No, you will not always be given a refund


My opinion is this: I do not think you are entitled to a refund and I support the decision already made by Thomas/HackingDojo.

However, I will refund you $5 USD if you stop posting (in this thread/about this topic)
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Dark_Knight

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Post Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:59 am

Re: My Experience With Hackingdojo Ripped Off My Money

BillV wrote:Wow.

I got through as much of this thread as I could take.

The bottom line is this:


- Yes, you are absolutely, 100%, allowed to ask for/request a refund for whatever you want, regardless of what your reasons are.

- No, you will not always be given a refund


My opinion is this: I do not think you are entitled to a refund and I support the decision already made by Thomas/HackingDojo.

However, I will refund you $5 USD if you stop posting (in this thread/about this topic)


+ 5USD
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rattis

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Post Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:40 am

Re: My Experience With Hackingdojo Ripped Off My Money

prats84 wrote:
What about my issue?
I didnt even get to start the course. I waited for course confirmation details and nothing came. All the refund emails were ignored.



prats84, when I quit the hackingdojo (I went back to a university), emails were hit or miss, but talking to him on IRC worked very well.
OSWP, Sec+
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Yet

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Post Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:29 pm

Re: My Experience With Hackingdojo Ripped Off My Money

The thing i understand is that people like you no reason is good enough, you people always look for way to turn it down because of the intentions you people have .

.
sh4d0wmanPP wrote:You have valid reasons to stop however no valid reason for a refund. The fact you have months remaining is because YOU refuse to take a MANDATORY exam. The course provider has not broken any agreement or rules. You try to change those yourself and by doing so you are at the mercy of the course provider.

I don't know where you are from and don't want to judge you on that. Maybe your country has less formal rules. However where I am from (Europe) you can not simply request a refund when you have signed up for a course and find some aspects in the course you not like. This is why you have to accept the user agreement before signing up and after that you are bound to it.

This is the last time I will reply here as you seem to have made up your mind and will not do anything with comments that differ from it. Good luck.



BillV wrote:Wow.

I got through as much of this thread as I could take.

The bottom line is this:


- Yes, you are absolutely, 100%, allowed to ask for/request a refund for whatever you want, regardless of what your reasons are.

- No, you will not always be given a refund


My opinion is this: I do not think you are entitled to a refund and I support the decision already made by Thomas/HackingDojo.

However, I will refund you $5 USD if you stop posting (in this thread/about this topic)



But i ain't surprise with the kind of post people like you always post cause you don't know what's like, you think this is child play? no wonder you are like your master supporting him to rip people off, always posting meaningless post so that your post will count writing out of point spamming topic .
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Grendel

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Post Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:04 pm

Re: My Experience With Hackingdojo Ripped Off My Money

I see the "conversation" has spanned 4 pages in just a day or two... as promised I will provide my experience and thought process to explain my decision to not provide Yet a refund.

Refund policy:
I use PayPal for my payment handling. What that does for me (besides process payments) is allows me to use their dispute resolution process for any issues such as contentions about what was promised / what was delivered. In order to sign up for my course, students have to agree to the paypal policies, which include remediation procedures that I believe are fair. It gives new students 45-60 days to contest their purchase, and provides students with information on how to proceed with other methods (going to the CC provider, etc.), if not satisfied with PayPal's resolution and arbitration process. I do not expand or outline the paypal policy on my web site since I don't have / desire to have a team of lawyers debating each little word in an agreement. I pay a processing fee that allows me to avoid dealing with financial disputes, and permits me to focus on running the dojo.

Yet's activities in the Hacking Dojo:
Shortly after Yet had access to the material, he and I had numerous (hours) worth of discussions regarding the content, starting with the novice material and advancing thorugh the Shodan material. This time included live chat sessions (via skype) in which I would answer his questions. During this time, Yet did not post any of the home work on the forum as requested in each assignment. Although disconcerting to an instructor, this did not mean he wasn't learning, nor was it an issue that would disqualify him from taking the shodan exam. It wasn't until his refusal to take the exam did any problem present itself.

Yet's complaints about the course material:
Once I understood Yet refused to advance, and that he wanted a refund, I asked him "can you explain where I have not met the conditions of the training as outlined in the FAQs or student wiki?" in which he replied "Hmm, don't get me wrong i never said you didn't met the conditions on your training FAQs, i can't write the exam or test also some issue just came up that i need to deal with them, also when we talked i have always told you your course is very good ." He then insisted I refund all but $300 of the yearly payment made for attendence at the dojo.

Yet has also complained (on this site specifically) that his access to the lab was blocked. When he brought this to my attention (after I told him there would be no refund) I emailed him the following: "I just checked the lab and its online. Check the wiki; the IP address changed," in which he replied "Well good for you, what I don't get why you don't have problem canceling the subscription."

Cost of the Dojo so far:
Currently, the breakdown of the course material at the Hacking Dojo is broken down as follows: Novice course ($199), Shodan course ($850), Nidan course ($850). The Shodan and Nidan courses each can be paid over 6 months if preferred (see the web site for specifics). Paid separately, Yet would have been responsible for $1049 so far. He has paid $1300 (which would actually allow him to progress as far as he could in the year's time, to the web hacking / network hacking / reverse engineering course assuming he passed each level's exam).

My denial of his refund:
On the 15th of October, after numerous emails about this subject, I told Yet that "based on your own acknowledgement, I have supplied you with the materials with no complaints from your end. Currently, you are asking for a refund simply because you prefer not to live up to the requirements for advancement. I see no reason to issue a refund and will not discuss it further. Access to the material will be left open, and I look forward working with you to obtain advancement in our program."

My reason for not refunding any of the payment is because of the acknowledgement by Yet that I had done no harm in our agreement, and it was simply his choice not to follow the requirements for advancement. Had there been technical issues that negatively impacted his training, I would have either extended his access to the material or refunded him, based on his current progress (had it not been almost two months, the refund could have a full refund if it was regarding technical issues - his issue or mine wouldn't matter).

I have in the past fully refunded student's fees and will so in the future, assuming both sides are attempting to resolve the issue; but in the case of Yet, there was no compelling reason to do so.

Bottom line:
Although Yet is unsatisfied with my explanation regarding his request for a refund, I will still live up to my end of the agreement and provide him access to the material and mentoring sessions for the term of his enrollment.It is up to him to take advantage of his purchase. On a personal note, his tone in the forums is mild compared to his personal emails. Despite this, I will do what I can to propel him along the path of professional penetration testing, assuming he is still willing to learn.
Last edited by Grendel on Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Thomas Wilhelm, MSCS MSM
ISSMP CISSP SCSECA SCNA IEM

Web Site:
  • http://HackingDojo.com
Author:
  • Professional Penetration Testing
  • Ninja Hacking
  • Penetration Tester's Open Source Toolkit
  • Metasploit Toolkit for Penetration Testing
  • Netcat Power Tools
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Grendel

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Post Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:18 pm

Re: My Experience With Hackingdojo Ripped Off My Money

MaXe wrote:Even though I haven't had any bad experience with the Hacking Dojo, I think you should contact http://attrition.org/ about this. (Twitter: attritionorg , Email: jericho[at]attrition.org)


Dude - pretty harsh, especially for right out of the gate, don't you think?
;)
- Thomas Wilhelm, MSCS MSM
ISSMP CISSP SCSECA SCNA IEM

Web Site:
  • http://HackingDojo.com
Author:
  • Professional Penetration Testing
  • Ninja Hacking
  • Penetration Tester's Open Source Toolkit
  • Metasploit Toolkit for Penetration Testing
  • Netcat Power Tools
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Grendel

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Post Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:19 pm

Re: My Experience With Hackingdojo Ripped Off My Money

prats84 wrote:
What about my issue?
I didnt even get to start the course. I waited for course confirmation details and nothing came. All the refund emails were ignored.


Prats84 - I will PM you and we can figure out what happened.
- Thomas Wilhelm, MSCS MSM
ISSMP CISSP SCSECA SCNA IEM

Web Site:
  • http://HackingDojo.com
Author:
  • Professional Penetration Testing
  • Ninja Hacking
  • Penetration Tester's Open Source Toolkit
  • Metasploit Toolkit for Penetration Testing
  • Netcat Power Tools
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venom77

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Post Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:29 pm

Re: My Experience With Hackingdojo Ripped Off My Money

Yet wrote:But i ain't surprise with the kind of post people like you always post cause you don't know what's like, you think this is child play? no wonder you are like your master supporting him to rip people off, always posting meaningless post so that your post will count writing out of point spamming topic .


Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing. How'd you know? ::)

Because of your ignorance, and because you are an idiot, I will no longer honor my offer to refund you $5 USD nor will I waste time replying to you any further.

Best of luck to you.
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venom77

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Post Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:35 pm

Re: My Experience With Hackingdojo Ripped Off My Money

Thomas: I think everything you've stated is fair. I support your decision and would also not give him a refund.

If his tone was worse in personal emails than on this forum, I would likely remove his access. For that, you are a better person than I :)

Hope you're feeling better.
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Grendel

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Post Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:40 pm

Re: My Experience With Hackingdojo Ripped Off My Money

BillV wrote:Hope you're feeling better.


Thank you, sir. I am out of the hospital, but not out of the woods. Next 10 days will tell, but I don't think there will be any complications.
- Thomas Wilhelm, MSCS MSM
ISSMP CISSP SCSECA SCNA IEM

Web Site:
  • http://HackingDojo.com
Author:
  • Professional Penetration Testing
  • Ninja Hacking
  • Penetration Tester's Open Source Toolkit
  • Metasploit Toolkit for Penetration Testing
  • Netcat Power Tools
<<

Yet

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Post Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:43 pm

Re: My Experience With Hackingdojo Ripped Off My Money

Well you can say what you like i don't care cause you're bigger idiot  .


BillV wrote:
Yet wrote:But i ain't surprise with the kind of post people like you always post cause you don't know what's like, you think this is child play? no wonder you are like your master supporting him to rip people off, always posting meaningless post so that your post will count writing out of point spamming topic .


Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing. How'd you know? ::)

Because of your ignorance, and because you are an idiot, I will no longer honor my offer to refund you $5 USD nor will I waste time replying to you any further.

Best of luck to you.
Last edited by Yet on Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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hayabusa

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Post Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:47 pm

Re: My Experience With Hackingdojo Ripped Off My Money

Yet wrote:Well you're hypocrite thus i don't care what you think Coward .


Coward??? WTH did that come from?  By what definition of anything ANYONE has said, here, can you find a coward?

I could say the same for 'hypocrite'...
Last edited by hayabusa on Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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hayabusa

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Post Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:49 pm

Re: My Experience With Hackingdojo Ripped Off My Money

Grendel...  good luck to you, sir.  Get well and best wishes!
~ hayabusa ~ 

"All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved." - Sun Tzu, 'The Art of War'


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