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Is it a mistake

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Joshsevo

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Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:57 pm

Is it a mistake

So I just graduated this past saturday with my BA in Network Security & Forensics  I am thinking of not going applying at any jobs for the time being.

Reason I decided on this is because in the past the jobs that I have applied for have gotten no either response to my resume or just contacted at all about it.

My resume isn't impressive (one reason why I am waiting) is because I only have my Security+.  So most IT jobs want certs and experience. I have an internship for the past yr doing Forensics as well as having a clearance from my time in the Navy.  But still no hits, no offers for an interview, nothing.

So until I get the certs I am aiming for i have no reason to apply at any jobs.  Is this a bad decision on my part?

I am able to move anywhere within the dop of a hat for a job but nobody is giving me a chance...yet.

Here are the certs I wil l get by October..then I will apply at every job I can find

CEH & CPT(attending the Infosec class in Aug/Sept)
Network+ (should get this one by Aug 101th
CCE
CHFI (last one to get)
GCFE have to take the test by Sept 19th

Once I have these I feel I will be better suited to apply at jobs than I currently am now
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El33tsamurai

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Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:10 pm

Re: Is it a mistake

What have you used in the past to apply?  Did they not offer you a job where you were doing your internship?  Are you using a cover letter? 
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rattis

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Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:28 pm

Re: Is it a mistake

putting your degree on your resume will help, and might get you some hits.
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Joshsevo

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Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:44 pm

Re: Is it a mistake

El33,  I have used the job searching sites, Monster, Dice, Clearedjobs, USAjobs, Glass Door, Indeed, as well as going onto indivual companies like Lockheed, Boeing, FBI, NSA, CIA etc to search for jobs.

My internship is a one man show.  Former US Customs Special agent that went private and doesn't want another person.  So I left it at that and never bothered to ask if he would hire me. Besides he told me he likes working alone.

I do have my BA on my resume and my clearance and my Sec+, still nothing.

It sucks cause once my school loans kick in I won't be able to afford them with my current financial situation.
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lorddicranius

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Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:07 pm

Re: Is it a mistake

I read this and immediately thought of infosecleaders.com.  Mike Murray and Lee Kushner run the site over there, post lots of good info on getting into an infosec career and answering email questions.  Good knowledge between those two with Mike having many years working in the industry and Lee being an infosec recruiter for many years.  Sending them your question might be beneficial to you also.

But yeah, I really don't like that vicious cycle: to get hired you need the experience, but to get the experience you need to be hired...ugh.  Maybe getting into a lower level IT job would help.  Although, it sounds like you're trying to get into the forensics side of the house and I'm not sure of the "job ladder" there, if there are "lower level" positions (I'm in networking).
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venom77

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Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:14 pm

Re: Is it a mistake

What sort of jobs have you been applying to? What are you looking for/to do?

If the post above is correct about forensics, check with your local law enforcement for an unpaid internship and let them know you're willing to do the "grunt" work to gain some further experience in the field.
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Joshsevo

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Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:13 pm

Re: Is it a mistake

I will definetly check the link out.  My internship is unpaid and a hell of a drive 35 miles.  In CO that's a far drive...LOL for a job that is.


I've checked with the local law enforcement offices already such as the RCFL Rocky Forensics Labs and independant Police stations.  ya good luck getting in contact with them...they never respond to emails or pick up the phones posted on their site.

Since my degree is Network Security and Forensics I am open to either one and I know that they  overlap each other considerably.  But if I wanted to only go for Forensics then it mkaes my job much harder cause there is less jobs and a smaller community.  SO I am open to anything, anywhere in the world.

Funny part is I have applied at help desk jobs, entry level jobs, networking jobs...Nothing.  I am a bit frustrated but not to the poing of giving up.  I have these certs to keep me occupied and then once I have them if I still don't get a job then I will be upset and move into middle managemnt at Target.  LOL.

My family needs me to have a full time job so quitting my job and going to a unpaid internship is out of the question.  I have two jobs technically.  My FT job doing tech support for a company that does lasers but then I have my intership when I get off work I go there for a few hrs....Then up until I grauated I was goin to school full time also.
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El33tsamurai

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Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:28 pm

Re: Is it a mistake

Joshsevo wrote:El33,  I have used the job searching sites, Monster, Dice, Clearedjobs, USAjobs, Glass Door, Indeed, as well as going onto indivual companies like Lockheed, Boeing, FBI, NSA, CIA etc to search for jobs.

My internship is a one man show.  Former US Customs Special agent that went private and doesn't want another person.  So I left it at that and never bothered to ask if he would hire me. Besides he told me he likes working alone.

I do have my BA on my resume and my clearance and my Sec+, still nothing.

It sucks cause once my school loans kick in I won't be able to afford them with my current financial situation.


Did you utilize the career services at the school that you attended?  I thought my resume was good and then they looked at it and man its a gold mine now, if you did not you might want to try to make a meeting with them and utilize them.  This was part of my last class which was a Capstone class that we had to incorporate everything we learnt and a resume was part of the class, did you do something like this? 
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Joshsevo

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Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:49 pm

Re: Is it a mistake

Oh ya, got an A in that class, it was called Career Development.  Even did a mock interview.  Career services helps me and my school has tons of job, mostly programming but other jobs.  I just looked at their boards yesterday and have 173 pages of jobs in the US but only 30 jobs in Colorado where I live, mostly programming.  I will not take a programming job under any circumstance..

It's soemthing I will utilize more once I have more certifications but as of now, the feedback I have gotten has been negative or none at all.  What I mean by negative was "your reusme is impressive but we are going with someone else".

So the only way that I can beat out you (other college grad) is to have more certs than them, making me look better and then getting my foot in the door with an interview.
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El33tsamurai

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Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:56 pm

Re: Is it a mistake

Don't mean to sound rude but don't count on that 100% might back fire on you.  Have you tried the school systems around you?  Are there ways for you to network around your area?  Can you work at the school you went to?  Can't just apply online you have to dress up and go to these places and look.  Have to show you are aggressive and you want the job.  Why did you chose to inter with a one man show?  Did the other school not have other options for you?
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rattis

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Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:57 pm

Re: Is it a mistake

programming jobs aren't all that bad. I lived as a database report programmer for a year.

Depending on the type of programming it will help you hone your business skills. Remember, being able to hire people capable of only tech is easy. They're a dime a dozen. A person that can understand what's driving the business and make the tech fit, worth their weight in platinum.
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El33tsamurai

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Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:03 pm

Re: Is it a mistake

chrisj wrote:programming jobs aren't all that bad. I lived as a database report programmer for a year.

Depending on the type of programming it will help you hone your business skills. Remember, being able to hire people capable of only tech is easy. They're a dime a dozen. A person that can understand what's driving the business and make the tech fit, worth their weight in platinum.


I agree on this as well, you take what you can get and make the best of it.  I took a Oracle data basing job thinking to myself whee is this going to get me.  Well turned out had the networking guys on my left and the Info sec guys on my right and man did I learn alot.  You never know where a job is going to take you :-D.
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Joshsevo

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Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:20 pm

Re: Is it a mistake

chrisj wrote:programming jobs aren't all that bad. I lived as a database report programmer for a year.

Depending on the type of programming it will help you hone your business skills. Remember, being able to hire people capable of only tech is easy. They're a dime a dozen. A person that can understand what's driving the business and make the tech fit, worth their weight in platinum.



Sorry, I hate programming so much. I struggled with it so much and have no desire to do it at all.  Besides I have a good job where I never will get fired, paid benfits so why would I go to a job where programmers are a dime a dozen and get fired a month after getting hired for not being able to make a program run properly.  Just not a smart finanacial move with a family.

In regards to networking.  What other suggestions do suggest?  I am a recent member to Infagard (the FBI's network Security group), Linkedin is on my profile. I send random invites to people I don't know to network with them.  So what other types can I do.  I've heard of blogging about me and my stuff.  But I am studyingfor the NET+ so why blog about it and it seems silly but may work.

The reason I took the intern with the one man show is the other intern I had didnt work with my hours.  I tried working with their hrs but they didn;t want to return my calls to come down or my emails so I don;t know happened so I found another one through my brother in law who is an investigator in for the DA's office. I work FT Mon-Fri 8-5 and since it was a Forensics intern I could not touch anything or work alone without being certified in CCE.  Which I took the test and failed miserably.

The reason I am trying to get my NET+ is there are more jobs that are looking for this cert and then that will allow me to get a better job with different hours that I can then do my internship on a more regular basis while getting the on hands experience I so desire.
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El33tsamurai

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Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:13 pm

Re: Is it a mistake

Joshsevo wrote:
chrisj wrote:programming jobs aren't all that bad. I lived as a database report programmer for a year.

Depending on the type of programming it will help you hone your business skills. Remember, being able to hire people capable of only tech is easy. They're a dime a dozen. A person that can understand what's driving the business and make the tech fit, worth their weight in platinum.



Sorry, I hate programming so much. I struggled with it so much and have no desire to do it at all.  Besides I have a good job where I never will get fired, paid benfits so why would I go to a job where programmers are a dime a dozen and get fired a month after getting hired for not being able to make a program run properly.  Just not a smart finanacial move with a family.

In regards to networking.  What other suggestions do suggest?  I am a recent member to Infagard (the FBI's network Security group), Linkedin is on my profile. I send random invites to people I don't know to network with them.  So what other types can I do.  I've heard of blogging about me and my stuff.  But I am studyingfor the NET+ so why blog about it and it seems silly but may work.

The reason I took the intern with the one man show is the other intern I had didnt work with my hours.  I tried working with their hrs but they didn;t want to return my calls to come down or my emails so I don;t know happened so I found another one through my brother in law who is an investigator in for the DA's office. I work FT Mon-Fri 8-5 and since it was a Forensics intern I could not touch anything or work alone without being certified in CCE.  Which I took the test and failed miserably.

The reason I am trying to get my NET+ is there are more jobs that are looking for this cert and then that will allow me to get a better job with different hours that I can then do my internship on a more regular basis while getting the on hands experience I so desire.


First man if you want in to field you have to take risks not count on your cozy job.  Second you don't know that, ask them what they expect the more you work with it the more you will learn, maybe you take the job and get you info sec job a few months later because you showed you dedication and help the right people at the company know what i mean?

Adding random people on Lunkedin is a start but man you have to get out in your community, go to local business and ask to speak to the head of the IT department: Hey I am new to the field just stopping by to see if you have any jobs or know any one that does.  This way they have a name with a face so when they see resumes they will remember you.  You have to get out there and show CO you passion to be a info sec person.

The DA has IT right, hit up the bro in law and ask him to sniff around to get you a job there?  Maybe you can work for them on weekends.  How did you study for the CCE?  Did the guy at the intern place help you?  Are you going to take it again?
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Joshsevo

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Post Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:05 pm

Re: Is it a mistake

Yes I will be taking the cce again. Actually shortly. It was rough to study for as there is very limited stuff they tell you and the written exam has nothing to do with the material they said to study.. then there is the 3 practical which you cant study for. It's either you know the stuff it you don't. It all about doing an investigation. My intern was not the same one that i have now and no they didnt teach me anything to help me.

So what your saying is, that you think me not applying for jobs until September is a bad idea. That's the question I asked in the beginning.
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