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Am I dreaming?

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SephStorm

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Post Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:37 pm

Am I dreaming?

I think I found the best IT training company...

Anyone ever heard of Koenig Solutions? http://www.koenig-solutions.com/

I am highly impressed with their training model. Not only do they offer the traditional 4-5-7 day boot camps, it seems the offer longer training, in theory, allowing you to really master a subject. Just what I have been looking for. Being that they are based overseas, I was of course weary, but surprisingly, their FAQ addresses those concerns, both illegal exam taking, and braindumping. And it seems they offer 1 on 1 training, a definite benefit for training like CEH or other training that requires specialized knowledge.

The pricing is defiantly a bargain to training in the US, and India is closer to my current location.

I am currently looking up reviews, all good so far, their claims to be Oracle partners checks out, and there is a decent review here: http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com/2008/06/or ... camps.html
sectestanalysis.blogspot.com/‎
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sil

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Post Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:33 pm

Re: Am I dreaming?

And here is a counterpoint to their expensive training... For the cost of their 9 day 4 day bootcamp (I picked the lowest price here...) the cost of their 4 day camp is 910.00 U.S.

What can I find for $910.00 that's worth my while:

1) 700.0 or so OSCP classes - 30 days lab + Videos + Exam
2) 210.00 left over for books

Or...

3) 99.99 VTC's Penetration Testing DVD's

http://www.vtc.com/products/Ethical-Hac ... orials.htm

Then you can learn at your own pace.

There seems to be confusion with what a bootcamp is and what it isn't. If you decide to take a bootcamp, fork out the money, think that in 4-9 days you will learn enough to make you an expert or even advanced, you're wrong and you're throwing money out the door.

Bootcamps were originally to help someone with experience. They were meant to take them 1-3 weeks before an exam where the bootcamp taker had enough experience and wanted to "cross his T's and dot his I's" They were never meant for someone to plop into an environment, take a one week class, memorize it all, pass a test... What did you learn? What COULD you possibly learn. Especially for for a bulky exam like the C|EH.

Here are three threads from me explaining this entire concept. They're long but informative.

http://www.techexams.net/forums/ec-coun ... -read.html
http://www.techexams.net/forums/ec-coun ... osure.html
http://www.professionalsecuritytesters. ... le941.html
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Grendel

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Post Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:01 pm

Re: Am I dreaming?

sil wrote:And here is a counterpoint to their expensive training... For the cost of their 9 day 4 day bootcamp (I picked the lowest price here...) the cost of their 4 day camp is 910.00 U.S.

What can I find for $910.00 that's worth my while:

1) 700.0 or so OSCP classes - 30 days lab + Videos + Exam
2) 210.00 left over for books

Or...

3) 99.99 VTC's Penetration Testing DVD's

http://www.vtc.com/products/Ethical-Hac ... orials.htm


...or, you could take $855 and spend it on 9 months at hackingdojo. Hell, you could spend just $30 on the official CEH study guide direct from EC-Council, if that's what you wanted to focus on. I cannot understand (or believe) the argument about "mastering a subject" in such a short time frame either. I agree with sil - what you learn should be a component of your decision making process, not just cost. To me, a 4-day bootcamp is not a dream, but a nightmare.
- Thomas Wilhelm, MSCS MSM
ISSMP CISSP SCSECA SCNA IEM

Web Site:
  • http://HackingDojo.com
Author:
  • Professional Penetration Testing
  • Ninja Hacking
  • Penetration Tester's Open Source Toolkit
  • Metasploit Toolkit for Penetration Testing
  • Netcat Power Tools
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sil

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Post Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:03 pm

Re: Am I dreaming?

And that too... I forgot about the classes @ HackingDojo which would likely prep you for a heck of a lot more than the C|EH. That is a class/course you can ALWAYS carry with you. Enough to plant a framework for life, not just passing an exam.
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T_Bone

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Post Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:29 pm

Re: Am I dreaming?

Well I have to say I certainly agree with Sil and Grendel on this one.  If you are new to the security field like myself I can totally understand where you are coming from SephStorm because you want to learn and master the concepts ASAP.  I started a thread on EH back in July (see link below) after just a few months of getting into the security field and also felt like yourself where I wanted to find a course that would provide me with as much information as I could in order to pass a cert like the C|EH and feel that I was therefore competent.

4 months on from them my confidence has certainly grown but a lot of it is because I am starting to realise that you cannot take any one course or training material over a short period of time and know what you are doing, but taking your time and learning is the most effective way.  There are some really good guys on this forum so why not maybe try purchasing something cheaper (C| EH study guide) and play with all the tools in a LAB at home and any questions just post them on EH and I can guarantee 9 times out of 10 someone will be able to provide advice or point you in the right direction :)

I am currently performing the HackinDOJO training and would recommend it.  At $95 per month you can't go wrong, you can even try it for one month and if you decide its not what you want that's fair enough but I would recommend it because Tom has managed to structure it so you have a session with him once a week and then you have 7 days there after to get a good grasp on the material taught from that week.


http://www.ethicalhacker.net/component/ ... ic,5712.0/
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rattis

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Post Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:14 pm

Re: Am I dreaming?

I have to chip in with everyone else.

Hacking Dojo sounds like a good offer, I'm waiting for the 1R course to start in January.

You could also take that money you'd pass over to them, and get a lot of books to study from off Amazon. Hit the EH amazon store for a lot of good reading material. If you get stuck you can always post around the forum and get an answer.

Books I'd recommend.
Hacking for Dummies
Professional Penetration Testing
Practical Lockpicking
Hacking Exposed
Hacking Exposed Wireless
Counter Hack Reloaded
Dissecting the Hack
OSWP, Sec+
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SephStorm

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Post Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:28 pm

Re: Am I dreaming?

Hold on a sec guys, I dont think you are seeing the whole picture here.

As far as OSCP goes, I certainly dont have the knowledge or experience for it, something I will work towards.

Books- I have access to most of the suggested books, and am in the process of reading them. I know it will take time for me, therefore, if I do attend any training, I am setting next year as a timeframe.

VTC- I have access to VTC, and while I havent watched their CEH videos, I have not really gotten into any of their others... Unfortunate really.

I am familiar with what a boot camp is, I took my A+/Net+ through one. A great experience, and personally I enjoyed it, my vision of what college should be like, in some ways... What I would like to see is a true TRAINING CAMP. Which is what this company appears to offer in part.

I think I looked at HD, and I will look again, but it looks like they are doing the online live training, an excellent option, but not for me, ATM. I am halfway across the world, and I have seen the problems that can arise with that. It really sucks, being here has opened many doors, and at least at the moment shut some.

I am going through the CEH Study Guide, and eventually the review guide, and Hacking Exposed, and Pro Pen Testing, and I am chronicling my trek here: http://www.ethicalhacker.net/component/ ... ic,6279.0/ - I hope you all come and read, comment.

I was looking at the PPT book today, while on duty, and I noticed some good suggestions for labs that I defiantly need to DL. I am really glad that Heorot is continuing the DE-ICE program with the HD, I am still learning a lot from the first CD.

So I dont end up rolling on here, let me summarize. I understand that a cert like CEH isnt meant to be done from 0-100 in 5 days. I do think however, that there could be value in having an instructor teach this material. With all of the options out there, it really is difficult to choose. EC-Council wants me to do iclass/vLive (w/e), Career Academy supposedly has a good option, lots of people have done self study, ect.

I also want to note here that I am not simply chasing the CEH cert, although I have wanted it for some time. As I am under DoD8570, I need either it or SANS to perform the duties I want to perform. And CEH is a good introduction to the skills needed for a pentester, I think.

I'll be happy to reply to any thoughts.
sectestanalysis.blogspot.com/‎

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