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Learning and never enough time!

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T_Bone

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Post Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:50 am

Learning and never enough time!

I am 100% sure its not just me that thinks this way but have only been working in security for 2.5 months and sys admin for about 5 years.... The problem is now that i am into security i just cant get enough of it and all i want to do is learn, the problem is there is just not enough time and money....oh and i have a girlfriend so more than half of my free time has to be spent with her!!! :)

I came across the link below and now would like to read every single book on this page. I think what would satisfy my hunger would be a course that spanned over 12+ months which would contain everything in the books on this link and more...

http://syngress.com/hacking-and-penetration-testing/
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Darktaurus

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Post Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:06 am

Re: Learning and never enough time!

Wait till you are married and have kids.  Then, you really have no time.  Just a note, try to follow the tweets of HD Moore and Jayson Street and you will learn that you have so much more to learn!! And of course, with no time.  :'(
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yatz

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Post Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:19 am

Re: Learning and never enough time!

KillJ0y wrote:HD Moore ... so much more to learn


I'd have to agree with this.  I listened to the podcast from Pauldotcom the other day with HD Moore and it was definitely over my head.  Not too much where I couldn't learn it, but just out of reach that I want to know it NOW.

T_Bone, I can relate!!!
"Live as though you would die tomorrow, learn as though you would live forever."

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rvs

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Post Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:34 pm

Re: Learning and never enough time!

I feel you guys!!!  ;D
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T_Bone

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Post Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:16 pm

Re: Learning and never enough time!

well I thought that it couldnt have just been me that feels this way! The problem is I know that i would never get to HD Moore's level but feels like there is just so much to learn before i even feel like i am an accomplished security consultant!
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dynamik

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Post Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:23 pm

Re: Learning and never enough time!

I think this is where realistic goal setting and direction/focus can really help. If you try to learn everything about everything, you're just going to end up spinning your wheels.

You should pick a topic/area that interests you, and determine a realistic time-frame for getting to your desired level of expertise. That's not to say you have to go out of your way to avoid learning about anything else (i.e. covering your ears and running out of the room) if something comes up, but you definitely should have one primary area of study.

I've found its also easier to keep up your momentum/motivation and receive a greater sense of accomplishment as you continually advance. When trying to learn several things at once, you advance far more slowly with each topic and feeling like a novice with many things for an extended period of time gets old.
The day you stop learning is the day you start becoming obsolete.
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sachitre

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Post Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:42 pm

Re: Learning and never enough time!

Hi Guys,

I am in the same boat. The biggest problem I face is that with so much stuff to learn its easy to drift from one subject to another...one website to another and before you know it you have spent 3 hours on something totally unrelated to what you started with.

I still have not found a solution but I have kept 2-3 primary goals and a deadline to achieve them. You dont want to miss anything so you cant get away from all the blogs, newsletters, RSS feeds and podcasts.


Cheers,
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T_Bone

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Post Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:42 am

Re: Learning and never enough time!

sachitre wrote:Hi Guys,

I am in the same boat. The biggest problem I face is that with so much stuff to learn its easy to drift from one subject to another...one website to another and before you know it you have spent 3 hours on something totally unrelated to what you started with.

I still have not found a solution but I have kept 2-3 primary goals and a deadline to achieve them. You dont want to miss anything so you cant get away from all the blogs, newsletters, RSS feeds and podcasts.


Cheers,



Yeah I know exactly what you mean sachitre, where ill be looking for information on say CSRF on the web, browse to a site that provides some information on the subject and then you see several other topics that look interesting, start looking at those and then completely loose track of what i was learning!

I suppose this is why i like to read books because i like to read from start to finish without jumping from chapter to chapter.... problem is books are not as upto date as the web and obviously COST MONEY! :)
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j0rDy

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Post Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:22 am

Re: Learning and never enough time!

everybody has the same problem. security is one of the fastest developing IT branch. Take your time, cause your time here will be a long one. I have never see somebody learn everything in a couple of years and then left because he/she got bored. i good example is the CISSP certification. you need 5(!) years of experience to actually may use the title. this gives an indication what lies ahead. just take your time and have fun!
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sil

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Post Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:32 am

Re: Learning and never enough time!

T_Bone wrote:The problem is I know that i would never get to HD Moore's level but feels like there is just so much to learn before i even feel like i am an accomplished security consultant!


Fail! Sorry I mean this with the utmost respect. By stating something like "I know that I would never...", you're setting yourself up for failure. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness) Your approach should be "I will be the best at X" no matter how long it takes you to get to where you have to go. This will allow you to keep a positive outloook outward and subliminally and help you further down the road.

With HD or anyone for that matter, there is experience. No one is born knowing, its all trial, error and learning. However, you have to have a goal and stay focused on achieving that goal. While HD might be considered the grandaddy of say reversing into exploitability, he might outright stink at say forensics, networking, etc., does this make him less that who he is? I think not.

Set realistic goals for yourself and work towards achieving them. Do it for yourself, for the love of it as opposed to the money (it will eventually get there if you do things properly) or trying to be on par with anyone else. One of my goals right now is to understand reversing to the point of opening up any file, knowing how that files works all the way down. This is not an easy task and as one gets older, retention becomes more difficult. However, I split this learning phase into something fun for me.

It gets frustrating at times because I understand the entire spectrum of things when it comes to reversing on an exploitation scale, there is something (one thing I haven't figured out yet) that is obscuring a clear picture for me. The learning process I've made fun and challenging, its what keeps me going. I dislike having to state: "I don't understand this" and that approach has allowed me to learn at a greater pace  - making sure I do what I need to do to understand things.

Never doubt yourself or place yourself in any situation where you state: "I will never be as good as..." otherwise you literally set yourself up to fail. I believe in the power of thought and being able to overcome obstacles no matter what they are (trust me when I state this, I've been there done that in life as a whole). You can achieve whatever you want if you believe in yourself enough and create a gameplan to achieve your goal.
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yatz

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Post Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:14 am

Re: Learning and never enough time!

sil wrote:Your approach should be "I will be the best at X" no matter how long it takes you to get to where you have to go.


For more on this, listen to Don's talk about a career in InfoSec as linked here: http://www.ethicalhacker.net/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,54/topic,3658.0/
"Live as though you would die tomorrow, learn as though you would live forever."

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T_Bone

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Post Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:54 pm

Re: Learning and never enough time!

@ sil

Thanks for that, you know i never even thought about what i said in the post in regards to "i will never get to".... You are defiinetely right and am certainly going to change my way of thinking.... :)
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impelse

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Post Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:14 pm

Re: Learning and never enough time!

dynamik wrote:I think this is where realistic goal setting and direction/focus can really help. If you try to learn everything about everything, you're just going to end up spinning your wheels.

I've found its also easier to keep up your momentum/motivation and receive a greater sense of accomplishment as you continually advance. When trying to learn several things at once, you advance far more slowly with each topic and feeling like a novice with many things for an extended period of time gets old.



I agree just focus in one area.
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T_Bone

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Post Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:50 pm

Re: Learning and never enough time!

Yeah I have recently started a role as a pen tester so just need to try and become a ninja in this area.  There is just so much else that goes along with it like the understanding of risk management, security controls, auditing etc etc.... but will focus on this area for now!
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Anquilas

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Post Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:52 am

Re: Learning and never enough time!

Indeed T_Bone, I'm glad I'm actually hearing it from someone else (and so many others in this thread).

There is so much to do, so much to learn and so much to read in the security field, that it becomes disorientating. In fact, having a day job that doesn't really have anything to do with security, my head often goes spinning just by wondering how I will one day manage to achieve the security knowledge I desire.

As many here have said, the only thing I have discovered so far is that you can only get ahead by setting a single goal, a subsection of all the things you want to learn, and working towards that goal as a first step. Then a second goal/step, a third, etc...
The theory of this is easy, in practice however, it's a b*tch. There are just to many interesting things out there :-)

In any case, good luck finding the path! ;-)
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