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Minn. Woman loses download battle

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venom77

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Post Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:12 am

Minn. Woman loses download battle

Jury Rules Against Minn. Woman In Download Case

This is nuts. And for only 24 songs...

MINNEAPOLIS -

A replay of the nation's only file-sharing case to go to trial has ended with the same result — a Minnesota woman was found to have violated music copyrights and must pay huge damages to the recording industry.

A federal jury ruled Thursday that Jammie Thomas-Rasset willfully violated the copyrights on 24 songs, and awarded recording companies $1.92 million, or $80,000 per song.


What kind of jury awards $80,000/song?!? Ridiculous
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UNIX

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Post Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:34 am

Re: Minn. Woman loses download battle

Read that today too.
It is ridicolous for this particular family of course, but i guess it was not really to punish them but to set a sign and frighten others off.
This happened also not for the first time.
Sad for the family though.
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ethicalhack3r

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Post Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:54 am

Re: Minn. Woman loses download battle

I wonder who gets the $80,000, the artist or the local governement?
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venom77

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Post Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:07 am

Re: Minn. Woman loses download battle

The RIAA/recording companies.
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unsupported

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Post Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:30 am

Re: Minn. Woman loses download battle

The RIAA stated recently that they will no longer seek prosecution in these cases because they got the point that it is illegal to download copyrighted material.  Either that, or they were tired of losing all their battles against dead women, toddlers, and mothers who do not even own a computer.
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Ketchup

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Post Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:34 am

Re: Minn. Woman loses download battle

I am actually surprised that at the verdict on this one.   RIAA has been losing other battles on inadequate investigation procedures, among other reasons.  I wonder what was different about this case.  
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RoleReversal

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Post Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:23 am

Re: Minn. Woman loses download battle

ethicalhack3r wrote:I wonder who gets the $80,000, the artist or the local governement?


BillV wrote:The RIAA/recording companies.


More importantly, how much gets back to the artist rather than the lawyers. I'm guessing not much.....
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Ketchup

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Post Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:53 am

Re: Minn. Woman loses download battle

I believe that it is not unusual for an artist to get under $1 from each CD sold.  I think that most are in the $1 to $2 range per CD.  This is for major labels (the ones suing) and depending on contract.  Based on this, I would think that the artists would get very little if she ever pays a dime. 
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timmedin

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Post Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:04 am

Re: Minn. Woman loses download battle

So if you walk into Walmart and steal a CD, you have stolen it, and no one else can have that CD. The punishment is basically a slap on the wrist.

If you go online and download the CD you have stolen it, but you aren't preventing someone from purchasing it. Punishment of $80k per song?

In both cases you have stolen the CD, in the first case you have taken something and it may not be sold again. I would see the first case as much worse.

Anyone else see this an incongruous?
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UNIX

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Post Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:06 am

Re: Minn. Woman loses download battle

I guess it is a never-ending discussion about downloading legal/ illegal / ethical etc.
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Post Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:09 pm

Re: Minn. Woman loses download battle

Timmedin,

I agree with your logic, the problem the authorities have is that few (I think) people would consider stealing a physical product from a store but many (again, guessing) have no problem with downloading something due to the percieved no harm/no risk nature of the crime. Therefore the punishment needs to be more secure to act as deterent.

Doesn't mean I agree with it, but you can see the reasoning behind it.
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Ketchup

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Post Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:54 pm

Re: Minn. Woman loses download battle

Not that I would ever side with RIAA in these cases, but didn't she upload?  I think that they are treating this as "intent to distribute." 

It's interesting that they determined the penalty to be $80,000 per song.  I believe that a penalty for not clearing a sample in a song is $20,000 per instance of radio-play or sale.  With the later, there is definite proof of intent to distribute and financial gain.  I don't see how they would ever prove that she intended to make a profit by uploading a few songs.  I am not even sure how they would prove that she meant to upload the songs when the software automatically shares everything on your hard drive.  This is just bizarre.
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timmedin

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Post Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:04 pm

Re: Minn. Woman loses download battle

I am not saying this is right, because it isn't, but it seems extreme getting fined $80,000 for something that costs $1.
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don

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Post Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:38 pm

Re: Minn. Woman loses download battle

Maybe that's the RIAA's point. Make so that everyone would think, "Why would I risk trying it even once and getting fined, when, for the same amount, I could have a legitimate library of 80,000 songs?"

Need to know the motivation behind anything... follow the money. After all, they describe themselves as:


The Recording Industry Association of America is the trade group that represents the U.S. recording industry. Its mission is to foster a business and legal climate that supports and promotes our members' creative and financial vitality. Its members are the record companies that comprise the most vibrant national music industry in the world. RIAA® members create, manufacture and/or distribute approximately 85% of all legitimate sound recordings produced and sold in the United States.



Don't you think it is very worth it to them monetarily to get this kind of thought process in the heads of music fans?

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timmedin

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Post Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:36 pm

Re: Minn. Woman loses download battle

don wrote:Maybe that's the RIAA's point. Make so that everyone would think, "Why would I risk trying it even once and getting fined, when, for the same amount, I could have a legitimate library of 80,000 songs?"

I don't disagree with you there. My point is that this seems excessive for downloading (she was not convicted of sharing/uploading). I don't get how downloading the song is so much worse than stealing the CD from Walmart.

If you steal one CD in Minnesota you can't be fined more than $1,000.
https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/statutes/?id=609.52
2008 Minnesota Statutes - 609.52 THEFT.
"where the value of the property or services stolen is $500 or less, to imprisonment for not more than 90 days or to payment of a fine of not more than $1,000, or both"

If you stole an entire CD (12 songs) from Walmart you receive up to a $1,000 fine, but if you downloaded the same CD you would receive a fine of $1Million ($80,000 x 12). A 1000 to 1 ratio seems ridiculous. Stealing the CD from Walmart would me that you now have access to the copyrighted cover art too.

don wrote:Need to know the motivation behind anything... follow the money. After all, they describe themselves as:


The Recording Industry Association of America is the trade group that represents the U.S. recording industry. Its mission is to foster a business and legal climate that supports and promotes our members' creative and financial vitality. Its members are the record companies that comprise the most vibrant national music industry in the world. RIAA® members create, manufacture and/or distribute approximately 85% of all legitimate sound recordings produced and sold in the United States.



Follow the money, that is the sad part in this whole thing. They say it is for the artists but none of the money is. The artists are even thinking about filing their own lawsuit against the RIAA.
http://torrentfreak.com/riaa-keeps-sett ... ey-080228/

don wrote:Don't you think it is very worth it to them monetarily to get this kind of thought process in the heads of music fans?

Depending on the "them" in this sentence. I assume you mean RIAA and
I would disagree with that point since I don't believe that is their goal (my opinion).

The only one who benefits from the lawsuits is the RIAA, and if all the lawsuits stopped then the RIAA wouldn't have an income stream and they would dry up. If I were the lawyers for the RIAA I would definitely tell them it is a good idea to continue with the lawsuits, I would get to keep my job then.

Note: I do NOT believe that downloading music like this is right, I just think it isn't being handled properly.
Last edited by timmedin on Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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