Writing a book

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    • #4155
      UNIX
      Participant

      Writing a book is one of a few goals I have and would like to achieve in future. I like the idea to teach others this way and forward a little of my knowledge I have. As I know a few authors I know how time consuming this is and that it means a lot of work – though I am sure that I will enjoy it, as I already do enjoy writing articles.

      As I know that some other members at EH-Net would like to write a book too or at least thought about it, I thought I could start this thread to have everything together.

      Are there any members who would like to write a book seriously and would like to work together or would be interested in some kind of co-authoring (e.g that I could contribute a few chapters)?
      Are there any famous authors already lurking around at EH-Net?

      I am in no hurry with this, just wanted to ask prior.

    • #26311
      Jhaddix
      Participant

      I will gladly contribute, as i was thinking of co-authorship for a book in the future.

    • #26312
      jason
      Participant

      I’m interested as well. This has been on my goals list for a while too. I’ve published a few papers, mostly in the ISSA journal.

    • #26313
      BillV
      Participant

      Yep, would be interested in this as well.

      We could probably round-up enough people here and make some sort or large ‘EH-Net’ publication. I’m pretty sure Don has a few publishing contacts…

    • #26314
      UNIX
      Participant

      That would be really awesome. Considering the knowledge of some people here it probably would result in a great book. I don’t know if too many cooks spoil the soup..though I have read some books where many authors worked together and thought that the books were good.

      Did someone already made some sort of concept or similar? I assume that most of us would be interested in writing a book about penetration testing but this covers many topics. Maybe we could do something like Gray Hat Hacking : The Ethical Hacker’s Handbook which covers many different topics which are still related to each other. Just an idea..

      If somewhen we really get through this and everything works out fine, I see no reason why no further books couldn’t be written by us. πŸ™‚

      Nice to see that others would be interested too.

    • #26315
      Don Donzal
      Keymaster

      I do know most of the publishers and have been approached by them for the DIY Career in Ethical Hacking and other ideas. In consulting with a number of friends who have published books, the ROI is not good. So although it is a goal of mine, it has gone down the priority list.

      Then again, maybe we create our own ePublishing House.

      Hmmmmmmmm…

      Don

    • #26316
      jason
      Participant

      I’d be more interested in working on a gen-u-wine old fashioned paper book than an e-bookΒ  πŸ˜›

    • #26317
      Anonymous
      Participant

      I wouldn’t be of any use as an author, but I’d be willing to offer some help with anything else that might need work on the project.

    • #26318
      UNIX
      Participant

      What is ROI?

      Personally I would be more interested in a printed book too, which is because I prefer to have something in my hands when I read something. Though I read much on the computer, I always prefer paper if possible.

      Laz3r, I think there would be many other ways one can help with this without actually writing. Reviewing, Proof/ Beta-reading, contributing ideas and suggestions etc., so enough work would be still available. πŸ˜‰

    • #26319
      Anonymous
      Participant

      I’d certainly be interested too. Perhaps it might be a good idea to work with others on eh.net on smaller goals first like papers to get who gets on with who creatively. That could mean more content for the site and some cool networking for those involved.

      Jimbob

    • #26320
      Anonymous
      Participant

      ROI = Return on Investment

    • #26321
      Anonymous
      Participant

      I would be interested in collaborating also. Writing has been on my list of things to do for quite awhile.

    • #26322
      timmedin
      Participant

      @don wrote:

      I do know most of the publishers and have been approached by them for the DIY Career in Ethical Hacking and other ideas. In consulting with a number of friends who have published books, the ROI is not good. So although it is a goal of mine, it has gone down the priority list.

      I’ve always been interested in this too. I understand that the direct ROI isn’t good, but the indirect career investment is where the benefits would realized. Of course, calculating the return is always hard.

    • #26323
      UNIX
      Participant

      It seems there shouldn’t be a problem with authors. πŸ™‚

      Any thoughts/ comments/ suggestions etc. on this:

      Did someone already made some sort of concept or similar? I assume that most of us would be interested in writing a book about penetration testing but this covers many topics. Maybe we could do something like Gray Hat Hacking : The Ethical Hacker’s Handbook which covers many different topics which are still related to each other. Just an idea..

      Or any other ideas on how to actually start? Probably it wouldn’t be a bad idea if we make some kind of write-up, summarizing topics one have knowledge of/ would like to write/ contribute about etc.

    • #26324
      ethicalhack3r
      Participant

      Id like to be involved too!Β  πŸ™‚ I would be interested in wrtting a few topics. What kind of book are you guys looking at writting? A general ethical hacking/penetration testing book?

      A good idea would be to use an online colaboration revision type application for the writting. (Google docs?)

      A good start would be to come up with a list of the people involved, a tittle and a list of topics you would like to include.

    • #26325
      Vedder
      Participant

      I’d also like to be involved, whether it be writing, proof reading etc.

      I think a collaboration amongst the EH.net people would make for a good read!

    • #26326
      UNIX
      Participant

      Well, how does it look?

      authors:

      • Jhaddix
      • jason
      • BillV
      • jimbob
      • Bane
      • timmedin
      • ethicalhack3r
      • Vedder
      • hayabusa
      • Grendel
      • awesec

      Others (proofreading etc.?)

      • Laz3r
      • Vedder
      • hayabusa

      Wasn’t sure where to put you in, Don. πŸ˜‰

      Any suggestions how to proceed?

      e: updated. πŸ˜‰

    • #26327
      hayabusa
      Participant

      I’ll help out, as well, wherever there is need, awesec.

    • #26328
      Grendel
      Participant

      I’d be willing to write as well, depending on the chapter topic. Is there an idea of what the book will cover?… there’s a lot of ground out there.

    • #26329
      alucian
      Participant

      I would like to contribute with at least some ideas (I already have a few thoughts).
      If you need more I am at your disposition.

    • #26330
      n0on3
      Participant

      A write-up, with a summary of the topics contributors will wrote about will of course help to organize the cooperation, but I think you also need some ideas for the overall structure, so that contributors may produce with a target in mind to fit in, that isn’t just writing an essay about their topic.
      That’s because otherwise putting togheter the contribution will result in some sort of refer manual, and there are already some books with that style, that also pobably focus on some of the same topics.

      With regard to that, if may I ask an (hopefully constructive) devil-advocate question:

      There are literally tons of books (claiming to be) about “hacking” or penetration testing, most of them boring people-with-IT-knowledge discovering the hot water again, other loosing general nature focusing on few particular metodology or (worse) tool to “reach the goal”. Fortunately, there are also some good ones that push to be creative, driving the reader to get some skills, understand the concepts, then building his own way.

      So, the question is: how will this book be different ?

    • #26331
      rattis
      Participant

      @awesec wrote:

      Any suggestions how to proceed?

      You’ve got a long list of people there. I think the next step would be to figure out what each author can bring to the table, as well if that is what they want to write about.

      From there start looking at a very very rough outline, and then compare it to other books on the market.

      With that list of contributors I can easily see that coming in around 1000 pages maybe think about breaking up into groups with sub focuses, which could end up as stand alone books.

      Maybe have one group writing on Certifications, and the pros and cons of each. Another group doing programing in pen-testing (I know I’d like to see a gray hat like programming books), how a system administrator can do a quick audit (all pen-tests really are) without a lot of additional training, and another section on writing programs to run though system logs looking for problems (I know I’m getting tired of stumbling through grep and awk scripts, and there has to be a better way).

    • #26332
      alucian
      Participant

      First of all, I think that a good starting point will be to ask two questions:

      1. what the others will want to know (problems they have, non documented topics, …)?

      2. what the contributors will like to write about?

    • #26333
      Grendel
      Participant

      This might help some… just my own personal experience, which may or may not have much weight… plus I had a really strong 7&7 and am feeling a bit tipsy, so what I write may not be coherent. But as usual, alcohol suppresses inhibitions, and so here I am, babbling away…

      From personal experience, I know that publishers like the idea of the book to be fully flushed out before they ever look at it. Meaning, that before anyone writes a thing, there should be an outline of the book to at least two, preferably three topic layers deep. Although each individual author should be able to do that, the chapters should be well-defined in advance before handing off to authors. In none of the books I’ve co-authored have I been the one to pick which chapters go into it – that’s for the lead to decide. I was simply asked which chapters I wanted to write, and went from there.

      Also, think of audience, whether you want it to be entry level, very technical, broad, or pin-point on a single topic.

      – Tom

    • #26334
      Grendel
      Participant

      O_o

      7&7 = Headache, btw

    • #26335
      dynamik
      Participant

      @Grendel wrote:

      O_o

      7&7 = Headache, btw

      That just means you’re running low and need another πŸ˜‰

      I know I’m late to the party, but you could count me in for a contribution, if you’re interested. Seems like it’d be a pretty sweet tome if everyone did a 40-50 page chapter.

      I always like books that walk you through exercises that build upon each other until ultimately complete some grand project. One of my favorite programming books was a Wrox ASP.NET book that walked you through developing an entire web app piece-by-piece. Now, I took absolutely nothing away from that and never do any ASP.NET programming, but I remember liking the book.

      You could make it really elaborate where there’s actually a fake .com company. The web servers wouldn’t be hacked, but you could show the process of doing recon on a “real” company, harvesting email addressing, maybe stopping by a stamp forum (yes, an homage to PWB), etc. The next chapter could take things a step further and so on. It would be cool to include multiple VMs on a DVD and have an actual network to work against instead of just something like a vulnerable distro. That way you could demonstrate things like port redirection with netcat and really kick up the complexity.

      I think it would be really cool to break it up into roles and have one chapter be penetration, the next IA, the next IH, and repeat. This is how you break it, this is how you detect it, this is how you respond to it.

      Just a suggestion πŸ˜‰

    • #26336
      NIX
      Participant

      I myself share the same dream and is presently making preparation for that time.Β  I have already come up with a name of a book Like the other members i will stick with thye old fashion paperback for now, if it ends up on ebook thats a plus but for now tradition rules.

      By the look of things its seems as if there won’t be enough space to hold the authors/co-authors nameΒ  ;D

      Count me in. you can email me

    • #26337
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hello everyone,

      don’t worry, I am not interested in participating (I am too young and inexperienced) but I can provide you with my opinion form the consumer perspective. I do not know if I can represent the buying public but I definitely can represent my self and my consuming urge!

      I have never paid for an e-book, I prefer buying printed books. I actually need to find space for storing them cos they are getting dangerously many. Therefore, I would suggest a printed version. Then again, it is the ROI thing that don mentioned before… anyway.

      The other thing you are discussing is the topic of the book. In my opinion there are far too many Web Server, Exploitation, UNIX, Windows and Pen Testing Security books out there. What is missing in my opinion (well…not missing, but only few books) are books on Application Security. I own 2 amazing books (Web Pen Testing by Andres Andreu and Web Application Hacker’s Handbook by Stuttard & Pinto) but I believe that more are needed. And definitely a fat book with many pages but not wasting pages on de-facto Chapters such as Automated Vulnerability Scanners etc. I also believe that books other than WebApp pen testing (e.g. ERP) are also missing from the market.

      Last, I always value books that have case studies, hands-on challenges etc.

      hope I helped somehow.

      Good luck!

      @dynamik wrote:

      @Grendel wrote:

      O_o

      7&7 = Headache, btw

      That just means you’re running low and need another πŸ˜‰

      I know I’m late to the party, but you could count me in for a contribution, if you’re interested. Seems like it’d be a pretty sweet tome if everyone did a 40-50 page chapter.

      I always like books that walk you through exercises that build upon each other until ultimately complete some grand project. One of my favorite programming books was a Wrox ASP.NET book that walked you through developing an entire web app piece-by-piece. Now, I took absolutely nothing away from that and never do any ASP.NET programming, but I remember liking the book.

      You could make it really elaborate where there’s actually a fake .com company. The web servers wouldn’t be hacked, but you could show the process of doing recon on a “real” company, harvesting email addressing, maybe stopping by a stamp forum (yes, an homage to PWB), etc. The next chapter could take things a step further and so on. It would be cool to include multiple VMs on a DVD and have an actual network to work against instead of just something like a vulnerable distro. That way you could demonstrate things like port redirection with netcat and really kick up the complexity.

      I think it would be really cool to break it up into roles and have one chapter be penetration, the next IA, the next IH, and repeat. This is how you break it, this is how you detect it, this is how you respond to it.

      Just a suggestion πŸ˜‰

      +1000.000.000.000!!! I would definitely purchase a book like the one Dynamik suggests!

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