Testing This Friday, but….

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    • #3920
      Sopwith
      Participant

      Hello all,

      First, a quick intro and history. Ill keep it brief.

      • I have over 10 years of IT (non security related) experience
      • I have been Studying for CEHv5 for the last 4 weeks.
      • I’ve been doing self study.
      • I have used the official study guide and counter hack reloaded as my only reading material.
      • I have taken CBTnuggets CEH Course.

      Here is the pickle I am in.  I registered for the test in March through Pearson and was given v5.  I just checked the Pearson/Vue site to get exam details (where the location was, etc..) and low and behold, it says now im sitting for v6.

      So here is my question…

      I have spent the last 4 weeks on the material for v5.  Exclusively.  I knew the newest revision of the test was coming, but had no reason to study for v6.  Plus all the material i can find is for v5. 

      I guess i am looking for some advice. Should I take it? OR… should I cancel it, and put the money towards OSCP?

    • #25022
      BillV
      Participant

      Well, the reason you’re taking v6 instead of v5 is because v5 was retired June 3, 2009:

      http://www.eccouncil.org/Exam/312-50.htm

      The objectives and modules covered in the v6 exam are the same as the v5 exam. If you have studied the books you’ve listed, and you’re confident in your knowledge of the concepts and tools presented then you should be fine.

      BillV

    • #25023
      Sopwith
      Participant

      Thank you.  I actually canceled the exam, read this and then called ECC and was able to use my original code.  I am still taking it this friday.

      I appreciate the reply, and will post again once I pass! (staying positive)

    • #25024
      BillV
      Participant

      Great! Good luck and keep us posted 🙂

    • #25025
      Sopwith
      Participant

      I should have left it canceled.  My original suspicions were valid.  The v6 test is NOT the same as the v5 test.  There were topics in the test that were not covered in any of the material.  I failed with a 60.   

      Im kind of at a loss on what to do, I wasted a lot of time, energy and my own money on this.    Oh well? ???

    • #25026
      Don Donzal
      Keymaster

      Don’t give up. Use it as a learning experience and press forward. Can you share with us the topics that were not convered in the material without giving away specific questions? This may help others facing a similar situation.

      Don

    • #25027
      Sopwith
      Participant

      Sure… Ill run down the list from: http://www.eccouncil.org/Course-Outline/Ethical%20Hacking%20and%20Countermeasures%20Course.htm

      I had at least 5 questions from each of these, including all the tools.

      I even called EC Council to discuss this prior to taking my test and was told the same thing as Billv.  Coming from two sources, i felt pretty good about.  Even though the link Billv provided was essentially a direct match to the official v5 Study guide, it was misleading. 

      My advice for anyone taking V6, is to STUDY for v6.  If you are in my situation, go with your gut and cancel the exam.

      My failure I can’t really chalk up to learning, other than what I learned studying for v5.  What I learned from failing, was be sure you study material for the test you are taking.

      I have contacted EC-Council to request a re-take discount due to the change.  A long shot for sure, but I’ll keep you posted.

      List of Topics on my test (im sure i missed some)

      Hacking Laws

      Virus Writing

      Assembly Language

      Exploit Writing

      Smashing the Stack for Fun and Profit

      Reverse Engineering

      MAC OS X Hacking

      Hacking Mobile Phones, PDA and Handheld Devices

      Bluetooth Hacking

      RFID Hacking

      Hacking USB Devices

      Cyber Warfare- Hacking, Al-Qaida and Terrorism

      Internet Content Filtering Techniques

      Spying Technologies

      Corporate Espionage- Hacking Using Insiders

      Software Piracy and Warez

      Hacking Web Browsers (Firefox, IE)

      Proxy Server Technologies

      Data Loss Prevention

      Hacking Global Positioning System (GPS)

      Computer Forensics and Incident Handling

      Credit Card Frauds

    • #25028
      Sopwith
      Participant

      The above list only includes topics that were NEW from v5 to v6 and 5 questions/topic is a stretch, but I would say new/unknown material accounted for up to 30-40% of the exam.

    • #25029
      BillV
      Participant

      That is certainly surprising to hear. If anyone else that has taken the v6 exam can confirm this, I’d like to hear.

      I am about to leave for the weekend, but I will look into this as soon as I get back if it is not resolved.

      edit (6/29): I’m back now and have sent off an email about this

      BillV

    • #25030
      fataku
      Participant

      I recently took the exam (3 weeks ago) and let me tell you that the V6 exam is way too diferent than V5, it cover more than the first 26 modules, and yes its actually a hard exam =/.

      @BillV wrote:

      That is certainly surprising to hear. If anyone else that has taken the v6 exam can confirm this, I’d like to hear.

      I am about to leave for the weekend, but I will look into this as soon as I get back if it is not resolved.

      In the meantime, I would recommend you continue to press the issue with EC-Council (info@eccouncil.org) and make sure you say you called them and that they told you the modules were the same.

      BillV

    • #25031
      Don Donzal
      Keymaster

      That is a little shocking on both sides. I was taken aback when I did the interview with EC-Coucil on the differences between v5 and v6:

      Interview: EC-Council Offers Details and Insights on CEH v6

      It seemed like the additional modules were optional/self-study. That seemed strange as it didn’t advance the credential at all. Heck, who would study optional modules if they were not included on the exam? I’ve also heard from a number of other sources including BillV that the exams are the same. But if that was their decision and it was announced, so be it. But to hear this now is again shocking. IMHO, this is what they should have done from the get go. But saying one thing and doing another just isn’t right.

      Can all of you look at the interview above and see if I you would have taken it this way? I thought at the time I was clear, but I could see how it could be possible, if we look at the exact words of the responses, that it could be taken another way.

      Thanks for looking into this, Bill. I’m sure many of the EH-Net readers, myself included, would like to hear a clarification on this.

      Don

    • #25032
      Sopwith
      Participant

      I wanted to thank everyone for the input and effort.  I apologize for my initial negativity, it was less than 30 minutes after failing and I should have spent a little more time wording my responses.

      I read the interview, and agree that the additional modules were optional and we wouldn’t be tested on it.  Especially when the interview reads…

      6. Can you provide a list of the module names separated by which are required and which are optional/self-study?

          HM: Modules 1 – 21 are required, and the rest are self study.

      I have emailed Haja, and info@eccouncil.org for information.  In my opinion which is obviously VERY biased.  I hope they will understand where I am coming from and offer a discounted re-testing rate to allow me to study the new modules.

    • #25033
      UNIX
      Participant

      It is interesting to read this, especially as not only one person “claims” this. Maybe it is not clear for outsiders as V6 was offered not long ago and not many people have taken it yet. Also it is a little “weird” that it seems not to be optional as it was said in the interview held by Don.
      It would be nice if you could publish their response for us so that we could read it too.

      Peronally I would have learned for optional modules too as I am interested in this kind, but considering that one have to learn anyway very much and keep it to pass, I would eventually only had a look at it after the exams.

      Looking forward how this one ends.

    • #25034
      BillV
      Participant

      This is the official reply I was given:

      In simple terms, CEHv6 contains more questions which are added to the existing CEHv5 pool.

      It is correct CEHv6 covers the same exam objectives as CEHv5.

    • #25035
      Sopwith
      Participant

      Thank you BillV for following up.

      If i were to interpret the response below, it states there are more questions from the CEHv6 material.  The objectives were certainly not the same, nor was the tool set I was tested on.  How was I supposed to know what specific GPS tools are without studying for them? 

      I hope the note I sent both Haja, and Info@eccouncil will at a minimum get them to take a 2nd look at my situation.

      Im not a sore loser (despite if this thread makes me sound like a whiner), and can accept failure.  I have failed other exams before, and recognized that I was the cause.  In this case, i honestly feel like i took the wrong test.

      I wonder if they could pull my exam, seperate v5 questions from v6, and grade it just on the v5 stuff to see what that score is.  Not as an official, but to see if i knew that material.

      Thanks again, and my next update will be upon a reply from EcCouncil.

    • #25036
      BillV
      Participant

      My interpretation is that there are more questions based from the same modules/objectives as v5. I don’t believe that means there are questions from the self-study modules. There should not be any questions outside of the objectives.

    • #25037
      Sopwith
      Participant

      Agreed.  If I dont hear from Haja or whomever answers info@eccouncil.com today, what shold my next step be?

    • #25038
      BillV
      Participant

      If you don’t receive an email reply, you could try calling the phone number listed on the website: here

    • #25039
      Sopwith
      Participant

      Thanks, I called them on my way home from the test.  The receptionist told me “Sorry, no one is here”.  It was 2:30pm in the afternoon.  :-

    • #25040
      Sopwith
      Participant

      I spoke with EcCouncil on the phone abuot 30 seconds ago.

      Here are the takeways

      • Pool of 300 Questions
      • They were under the impression the test was the same as v5 including the tools and questions pool

      So when i mentioned the v6 questions, and was able to provide specifics without studying for them he was certainly suprised to learn optional modules made it on the test. However, he said he had talked to a handful of people that mentioned the same thing.

      The sad conclusion (for me at least), is that.  It is what it is, i failed and its too bad for me. 

      I am not naive enough to think that it I was as ready as i could have been and its everyone else’s fault.  I take ownership of the failure, but do feel slightly blindsided by the new information. 

      The rep was great, and tried to sell me a training package for $1449.  ;D

      I’m going to put CEH on hold until sometime in the future, right now im headed to take the OSCP training.

      Thanks everyone for the help, and anyone following along, be sure you study ALL the CEH v6 objectives, including the “optional” modules.

    • #25041
      BillV
      Participant

      Do you know who you spoke with? Or can you PM me the name if you have it?

    • #25042
      Sopwith
      Participant

      For those following along…

      A PM was sent to BillV with the requested info. So im waiting to hear if anything comes of it.  *THANKS BILLV*

    • #25043
      UNIX
      Participant

      Thanks for the updates.

      I think the best thing one can do in such a situation is to look at the good things such as the new things one learned. However, it is really bad that it went out this way.

      Maybe you can ask for some kind of discount when you retry again at a later point. Do you already have plans to take it after the OSCP?

    • #25044
      Sopwith
      Participant

      Here is an interesting turn of events…

      I received an email this morning from EC Council.  Portion of it below.

      “I would think it would be best if you attended a CEH v6 course if you think you cannot manage the additional topics found in v6.  You can then face this exam much better prepared.

      Either that or we are prepared to offer you a discounted voucher for CEH v5 (details removed) but you will need to go to one of our ATCs to take the exam before end July.”

      Why is this interesting?  Well, because that appears to be acknowledgment that the exams are different there is new information based on new modules.

      I want to take this new deal, but cant afford even the discounted rate at the moment.  Ill keep everyone posted.

    • #25045
      BillV
      Participant

      There is a committee meeting tomorrow morning and this is on the list of topics I will bring up (in addition to the 69% rounding to 70% issue mentioned in another thread).

      If anyone has any other issues/comments regarding EC-Council, or more specifically the ECE system, please let me know and I’ll do my best to get it addressed.

      Thanks,
      BillV

    • #25046
      Sopwith
      Participant

      Thanks BillV, i appreciate it.

    • #25047
      UNIX
      Participant

      Thanks for your hard work BillV and your ear for the community.
      Keep us updated. 🙂

    • #25048
      Sopwith
      Participant

      I got another offer from EcCouncil and I will take their new deal.

      Basically, there are going to let me sit for CEHv5 (for a fee).  I submitted to them I will take the test next friday (due to the holiday), but they may come back and want me to take it today.  I suppose that would be fine, but leave me little time for a quick review before walking in there.

      If I fail this time, it will be the biggest embarrassment of my career considering the stink i have raised regarding the exam revisions.

      I suppose ill cross that bridge if it comes to that, but for now I am focusing on taking the exam and preparing to pass.

      Thanks again.

    • #25049
      UNIX
      Participant

      Wish you good luck!

      Looking forward to your next reply. Hope everything goes fine this time. 😉

    • #25050
      RoleReversal
      Participant

      Good luck,

      I think the stink is worth it pass or fail, as everyone seems surprised by the change to the exam after the previuos comments made by EC-Council.

    • #25051
      BillV
      Participant

      No problem guys.

      I don’t think they’ll make you take it today. They’ll either give you a new registration code or re-activate your prior code so you can re-schedule the exam.

      As for quick update on what was discussed…

      There is a review team that is responsible for the exam questions and mapping them to the objectives. How/why topics not in the objectives of the exam slipped through I’m not too sure. However, they are now considering forming another committee to take part in the review/development of exam questions.

      Regarding the rounding of scores – it was unanimous that this should no longer occur. They will also be researching into moving from a %-based scoring system (e.g., 70% to pass) to a point-based system (700/1000 to pass). This will eliminate the marginal feeling associated with a “69.3%” on the exam, and it will be a strict 700 to pass. Keep in mind, these aren’t the final numbers, just throwing them out there as an example.

      Also the new point system has been finalized and been passed to the board for their approval. After that point, it should be implemented into the website.

      Also, good luck on your test 🙂

      BillV

    • #25052
      yackko
      Participant

      Wow, so looking at study materials, there aren’t a lot available for v6.  Just wondering if anyone have any pointers to study for v6.  No money to shell out for the class.  I have the years in security and have a sit in code for v5, but lapsed, just need to re-apply for a v6 code..??

      Thank you all, as I was still studying the v5 books and course materials.

    • #25053
      UNIX
      Participant

      I haven’t found a third-party book which covers the V6 from CEH, but I am pretty sure that some will appear soon.
      As far as I heard the official coursewear should be very good, however, I can’t confirm this by myself as I haven’t had a chance to take a look at them. If possible you may consider to buy them as they are from the source itself and should contain everything you need to pass.

      You may take a look at the subforum on EH-Net for the V6 version (here), where you can find some threads which may help you (interview, wiki, …), though there is not much info available yet.

      However, it looks like V6 covers same as V5 but more questions on the modules but not about the optional modules.

      Any news Sopwith?

      Thanks for the update BillV.

    • #25054
      BillV
      Participant

      @yackko wrote:

      Wow, so looking at study materials, there aren’t a lot available for v6.  Just wondering if anyone have any pointers to study for v6.

      As previously stated, the objectives/modules covered for v6 are the same as v5.

    • #25055
      KamiCrazy
      Participant

      @BillV wrote:

      @yackko wrote:

      Wow, so looking at study materials, there aren’t a lot available for v6.  Just wondering if anyone have any pointers to study for v6.

      As previously stated, the objectives/modules covered for v6 are the same as v5.

      I am looking to take the test this month. Will I encounter the same issue as Sopwith if I take the test?

      His own situation largely mirrors my own. All my course material and study has been in v5.

    • #25056
      BillV
      Participant

      @KamiCrazy wrote:

      I am looking to take the test this month. Will I encounter the same issue as Sopwith if I take the test?

      His own situation largely mirrors my own. All my course material and study has been in v5.

      It has been confirmed that several people have received questions outside of the scope of the objectives however, this is a very small number. There is a review process that is in place (which may be soon expanding to allow more people the ability to review test questions) to make sure questions are suitable for the exam.

      While it is still within the realm of possibility that you may experience something similar to what Sopwith posted, I would not expect it. The objectives for v5 and v6 of the exam are the same. If you have used the v5 courseware and official study guide, that should still be sufficient to pass the v6 exam.

      On another note… Sopwith, did you take the exam again today as expected?

    • #25057
      Sopwith
      Participant

      Sorry for the lack of updates everyone. I have been dealing with a lot of personal family issues, and some other stuff that has prevented me from taking the exam.  I worked it all out with EC Council, and took it today. 

      The results…………

      Pass.  >75 %  Thanks again everyone and good luck to anyone taking the exam.

    • #25058
      Don Donzal
      Keymaster

      w00t!!

    • #25059
      BillV
      Participant

      Awesome! Congrats!

    • #25060
      RoleReversal
      Participant

      Congrats Sopwith, glad it all worked out in the end.

      Second time around; how much of the exam was new material to v6 (if you’re able to comment)

      Where you planning on going from here?

    • #25061
      Sopwith
      Participant

      Andrew:  I was MUCH MORE familiar with the material/questions this time around.  I felt that the test was a closer match to what I studied.  I passed with an 80.  It was actually a 79.7x.  So I didnt know it as well as I could have.  I also did self study, and a lot of what i learned was either hands on or from building labs.  There is a post here (forgot where) with a great guideline for passing with self study.  I followed it pretty closely. However my study time was limited to about 2 months. 

      I have been enrolled in OSCP for 30 days, and purchased the 60 days worth of the lab. Everything said about OSCP is true, it IS the best training of all time. 

      Another thing I did was ask to volunteer for my company’s information security department.  Luckily they allowed it, and it helped me learn nmap, and a lot of other tools in an enterprise environment. 

      I am going to stop testing after OSCP, while i love the learning, it will be time to put what i learned to use.

    • #25062
      UNIX
      Participant

      Congratulations, Sopwith. 🙂
      Good to hear, that everything went fine and that you are now certified. 😉

    • #25063
      Xen
      Participant

      Congrats!

    • #25064
      RoleReversal
      Participant

      Thanks for the follow-up, good luck with OSCP

    • #25065
      kennut
      Participant

      Congrats on the passing, hope the guide was a good one for you to pass it!  ::)

    • #25066
      UNIX
      Participant

      Sopwith, is this the guide you mentioned?

    • #25067
      Sopwith
      Participant

      Bingo @awesec. 

      Thanks everyone for all of the comments and support.  I received a nice email from some suits at the EC-Council.  They were awesome to deal with. 

      Thanks again, and Ill be around if anyone has any questions.

    • #25068
      BillV
      Participant

      Glad to hear that everything worked out for you – and good to see that EC-Council followed-up. 🙂

    • #25069
      ScrumpyJack
      Participant

      I just took CEH v6 this past weekend and I concur in that there were questions from random self-study modules.  I ran into a few Bluetooth and GPS related questions that I was quite surprised about, so naturally I’m sure I missed them all.  I was able to pass, but not by much.   

    • #25070
      UNIX
      Participant

      Congratulations on passing, ScrumpyJack.

      Although you passed the exam, it would be still nice if you could contact EC-Council in terms of this, so that others who are going for CEH too, don’t get into the same situation.

      Did you take your exam recently? Maybe the review of the questions was not yet done completly or approved at this point.

    • #25071
      UNIX
      Participant

      @BillV wrote:

      That is certainly surprising to hear. If anyone else that has taken the v6 exam can confirm this, I’d like to hear.

      BillV

      Interview: EC-Council Offers Details and Insights on CEH v6

      6. Can you provide a list of the module names separated by which are required and which are optional/self-study?

      HM: Modules 1 – 21 are required, and the rest are self study.

      To get back to this; I had on my exam today also questions on topics such as VoIP, GPS, Bluetooth and some others.

    • #25072
      j0rDy
      Participant

      jup, you will come across questions from the self study modules. ofcourse, if they don’t ask questions about it they have no reason to include it in the material right? however, the exam is passable even if you dont know the self study material.

      congratulations on passing for CEH! any plans for the next one?

    • #25073
      UNIX
      Participant

      Thanks. I am not sure. As a student money is short too. :-
      Time will tell.. 🙂

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