My Experience With Hackingdojo Ripped Off My Money

This topic contains 61 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by  Don Donzal 7 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #7968
     Yet 
    Participant

    Hello,
      This is my experience with Hackingdojo on how my money get ripped off .
    So i started Hackingdojo a month & half ago i paid for a Year subscriptions, i did the novice course with the shodan now it’s time for him to move me to the next level thus i already round up with the shodan course, i mailed him telling him that i rounded up with shodan level, his response was i most write an exam before i can move to the next level i told him i can’t & he asked why? & i told him i just want to know the way things works i ain’t interested in certificate, well he said it’s a most that all student most take it, he has been doing it for years well i said no problem since we can’t resolved this issue we keep having problem since we can’t agree on a common ground i made a request  i need him to cancel my subscriptions.
    But he said he’s not going to make refund also not going to cancel the subscription neither, that he supply me with everything that his course has no problem, but only one thought came to my mind i have been ripped off by hackingdojo, but the funny part was that i told him to took off the months that i have stayed then refund the others he refuse.
    Then i though  again what legit business person won’t make refund if you don’t want to deal with them?

    Well i know maybe people would like to know if the course was good or what was my experience with the course? my answer is Yes/No First the Yes – yes it’s cool thus i was still new to penetration testing it all about methodology, Second the No – no it’s about methodology i was hoping the course was unique or something new, fresh ideas even doing something different, if you ain’t creative what makes you think your stuff is unique? well everyone has their opinion about everything or about the course thus people see things differently .

    I know some people would say maybe i would have taken the exam but i have my reasons –
    1) He has no attitude or regard for anyone apart from himself.
    2) I can’t even connect to the Lab always time out.
    3) If we can’t agree on common issues i don’t think i can deal with such person.
    4) Lastly he doesn’t respect other people’s views or opinion whatever he says that’s it, his pride is clouding him cause i mailed him countless times concerning the issue but no response that means he doesn’t want to refund he just want to keep the money  .

    Well if you most know i paid 1300$ Aug 22 .

  • #50507
     prats84 
    Participant

    Had a similar experience.
    I joined for pay monthly. The guy took the first months money and just   emailed me to get my background. Once sent my information got no reply for the course timings and after getting tired of chasing him for couple weeks I started requesting  for refunds. Till this date there has been no emails from him and He has blocked me on Skype etc.

    The amount wasnt as big as yours but its some money that I will never see it back.

  • #50508
     MaXe 
    Participant

    Even though I haven’t had any bad experience with the Hacking Dojo, I think you should contact http://attrition.org/ about this. (Twitter: attritionorg , Email: jericho[at]attrition.org)

  • #50509
     SephStorm 
    Participant

    Very interesting experiences. Hmm. Well, I would certainly agree that if there was unused portion of the class and subscription remaining, most companies will refund the unused portion. I would review anything you signed, the sites policies. If there is no clause stating that there are no refunds, then I would say you have a legit gripe on that account. I would also consider inquiring about if he would refund the remaining amount if you did complete the course (i.e. the report)

    I must say, I had a friend who had an experience with Hacking Dojo where they said they had contact issues as well… I cant confirm anything independently, but the situation was resolved eventually.

    I dont know about attrition, I would personally reserve that for the most extreme and blatant cases. This seems more like disputes.

  • #50510
     Yet 
    Participant

    @sephstorm wrote:

    Very interesting experiences. Hmm. Well, I would certainly agree that if there was unused portion of the class and subscription remaining, most companies will refund the unused portion. I would review anything you signed, the sites policies. If there is no clause stating that there are no refunds, then I would say you have a legit gripe on that account. I would also consider inquiring about if he would refund the remaining amount if you did complete the course (i.e. the report)

    I must say, I had a friend who had an experience with Hacking Dojo where they said they had contact issues as well… I cant confirm anything independently, but the situation was resolved eventually.

    I dont know about attrition, I would personally reserve that for the most extreme and blatant cases. This seems more like disputes.


    Yeah you got that right but Hackingdojo doesn’t want this issue to be solved i talked to him so many times but ignored me  .

    @maxe wrote:

    Even though I haven’t had any bad experience with the Hacking Dojo, I think you should contact http://attrition.org/ about this. (Twitter: attritionorg , Email: jericho[at]attrition.org)

    @maxe thanks i will have to check that site out to see if they can help me out .

  • #50511
     MaXe 
    Participant

    @sephstorm wrote:

    I dont know about attrition, I would personally reserve that for the most extreme and blatant cases. This seems more like disputes.

    I know taking this to Attrition is a bit extreme, but a security company who isn’t dealing in an honest way? Every security company should know about Attrition, and the potential PR impact it has if you don’t play fair in the industry. I don’t want to see Hacking Dojo there, as I like it even though contact issues has known to occur, even for me  🙂 (Basically because they are extremely busy with their other primary job as well.)

  • #50512
     S3curityM0nkey 
    Participant

    Oh dear… I had a problem with the communitcation between student and teacher when it was herot…

    Will be interesting to see if Thomas replies to this thread, he is on the forum.

  • #50513
     Grendel 
    Participant

    I’m currently in the hospital (perforated lower intestine), so cannot respond at this moment. Once released I will respond. Thanks for everyone’s patience.

  • #50514
     S3curityM0nkey 
    Participant

    @grendel wrote:

    I’m currently in the hospital (perforated lower intestine), so cannot respond at this moment. Once released I will respond. Thanks for everyone’s patience.

    I think before anyone has anything else to say we need to let Thomas get back on his feet.

  • #50515
     rattis 
    Participant

    When I took the course, I never had a problem. Writing the report is part of the requirements of a course. I never moved out of the shodan class, because I never felt I learned enough to do the requirements to move up. But that was my issue, not a problem with the course.

    As for a refund, try that with a University. You sign up for a class, decide you don’t like the teacher and drop. If it’s past the drop date, you’ll get nothing back. The University I’m at, if you wait too long, you get an E for the course.

    As for Attrition… be ready to answer lots and lots and lots of questions. if you want an idea of what it’s like, check out the Exotic Liability episode, where Chris Nickerson talks about it. They know how to do journalism over there, and know the power of their brand, and try to use it wisely.

  • #50516
     MaXe 
    Participant

    @SecurityMonkey wrote:

    @grendel wrote:

    I’m currently in the hospital (perforated lower intestine), so cannot respond at this moment. Once released I will respond. Thanks for everyone’s patience.

    I think before anyone has anything else to say we need to let Thomas get back on his feet.

    I agree  ;D

  • #50517
     SephStorm 
    Participant

    @chrisj wrote:

    As for a refund, try that with a University. You sign up for a class, decide you don’t like the teacher and drop. If it’s past the drop date, you’ll get nothing back. The University I’m at, if you wait too long, you get an E for the course.

    The difference is that with a university, or other programs, these policies are clearly written into contracts, policy documents, or even web site terms. Hopefully Thomas has these in his course terms, but we’ll find out. Get well soon Thomas.

  • #50518
     hayabusa 
    Participant

    I’m sure Thomas will speak for himself, but as for the question about being required to pass an exam before moving to the next level, this has been in his FAQ for quite some time:

    http://hackingdojo.com/faq/

    Q: Do new students have access to all the levels of instruction at once? Or do students advance one level at a time?
    A: Students advance one level at a time and will only have access to their appropriate skill level. This ensures that a student has the demonstrable skills and knowledge for the next level before advancing; otherwise they would struggle with the new material and hinder the progress of others during the live mentor training sessions. Once the student has demonstrated to the instructor their competency in the skills needed to move on, they do so. Competency is demonstrated through completion of a hands-on, written and practice exam.

    Q: What if I already know the Shodan material – do I have to pay for the training, or can I simply move onto the Nidan level?
    A: A new student that feels confident they can pass the Shodan exams should immediately ask to take the tests. The new student will have only one week to request the exams and successfully pass both the written and practical. If they fail to pass both, they must complete the Shodan material before moving onto the Nidan material.

    Looks pretty clear to me…

  • #50519
     Yet 
    Participant

    Yeah it’s looks clear to you, so what’s wrong for me to cancel my subscription? & request for refund? so you mean i should let go of my money because of policy ? this is very clear take off the time i have stayed refund others what’s wrong with that?

    @hayabusa wrote:

    I’m sure Thomas will speak for himself, but as for the question about being required to pass an exam before moving to the next level, this has been in his FAQ for quite some time:

    http://hackingdojo.com/faq/

    Q: Do new students have access to all the levels of instruction at once? Or do students advance one level at a time?
    A: Students advance one level at a time and will only have access to their appropriate skill level. This ensures that a student has the demonstrable skills and knowledge for the next level before advancing; otherwise they would struggle with the new material and hinder the progress of others during the live mentor training sessions. Once the student has demonstrated to the instructor their competency in the skills needed to move on, they do so. Competency is demonstrated through completion of a hands-on, written and practice exam.

    Q: What if I already know the Shodan material – do I have to pay for the training, or can I simply move onto the Nidan level?
    A: A new student that feels confident they can pass the Shodan exams should immediately ask to take the tests. The new student will have only one week to request the exams and successfully pass both the written and practical. If they fail to pass both, they must complete the Shodan material before moving onto the Nidan material.

    Looks pretty clear to me…

    @chrisj wrote:

    hen I took the course, I never had a problem. Writing the report is part of the requirements of a course. I never moved out of the shodan class, because I never felt I learned enough to do the requirements to move up. But that was my issue, not a problem with the course.

    As for a refund, try that with a University. You sign up for a class, decide you don’t like the teacher and drop. If it’s past the drop date, you’ll get nothing back. The University I’m at, if you wait too long, you get an E for the course.

    As for Attrition… be ready to answer lots and lots and lots of questions. if you want an idea of what it’s like, check out the Exotic Liability episode, where Chris Nickerson talks about it. They know how to do journalism over there, and know the power of their brand, and try to use it wisely.

    I don’t really get your point you mean if i am in the University i can’t request for refund? or when student pay for a complete session & want to drop out they won’t refund? that’s new some times the way people make post they want to make you look stupid   .

  • #50520
     hayabusa 
    Participant

    I didn’t say the ‘refund’ situation was clear.  That’s between you and Thomas.

    I was referring to your ‘original’ request of him, to bypass the exam.  His policy was spelled out in the FAQ, clearly.  So because you don’t agree with, and want to follow, the standard policy, you requested a refund.

    If you buy a software license, and disagree with it after a month, they generally won’t refund it, based on time or other usage.  You paid for, and had access to, intellectual property.  I can understand your desire for a refund, but I can also understand his stance, if he doesn’t.  So it’s a matter the two of you will have to work out.

    At this point, it’s between you and Thomas.

    I’m glad you gave your opinions on the course and the situation, though.  It’s always good to get feedback, good or bad, so folks can make their own decisions.

  • #50521
     hayabusa 
    Participant

    Incidentally, with regard to the university thing…

    At least where I’m from, you can generally get a refund, but only if you drop the class within the first week or less.  After that time, it’s your loss, because the seat could have been filled by another, paying student.

  • #50522
     Yet 
    Participant

    Hmm, why not? i Paid for a Year Aug 22 this Year, not at last Year it hasn’t gotten to 2 months i said take off your fees that i have stayed then refund the others i don’t think there’s nothing wrong with that .

    @hayabusa wrote:

    I didn’t say the ‘refund’ situation was clear.  That’s between you and Thomas.

    I was referring to your ‘original’ request of him, to bypass the exam.  His policy was spelled out in the FAQ, clearly.  So because you don’t agree with, and want to follow, the standard policy, you requested a refund.

    If you buy a software license, and disagree with it after a month, they generally won’t refund it, based on time or other usage.  You paid for, and had access to, intellectual property.  I can understand your desire for a refund, but I can also understand his stance, if he doesn’t.  So it’s a matter the two of you will have to work out.

    At this point, it’s between you and Thomas.

    I’m glad you gave your opinions on the course and the situation, though.  It’s always good to get feedback, good or bad, so folks can make their own decisions.

  • #50523
     hayabusa 
    Participant

    I’m kidding, not accusing you of this, so don’t come jumping back in a firestorm…  Some people lately have been misinterpreting posts, so I want to make that clear.  But playing devil’s advocate, one might say –

    “So you basically wanted a discounted rate, while you “checked it out”, rather than paying monthly, so that IF you liked it, you’d come out ahead, and otherwise, if you chose not to stick it out, you’d save a bit, by terminating early?”    😉

    That, or:

    “Dad saw the charge on his credit card, so you don’t want to pay the bill.”    ;D

    I’m not saying that you are wrong.  I’m not saying Thomas is wrong.  What I’m saying is, I legitimately see both interpretatons / sides of this, and that you’ll have to settle it between the two of you.

  • #50524
     Yet 
    Participant

    Well i get your point now, i try to resolved it before hand even before posting this issue here, but i get pissed when he said no refund it seen bully to me forcing me to do what i don’t want to do . Personally i don’t see this case to big deal but he doesn’t want to resolved it at all  .

    @hayabusa wrote:

    I’m kidding, not accusing you of this, so don’t come jumping back in a firestorm…  Some people lately have been misinterpreting posts, so I want to make that clear.  But playing devil’s advocate, one might say –

    “So you basically wanted a discounted rate, while you “checked it out”, rather than paying monthly, so that IF you liked it, you’d come out ahead, and otherwise, if you chose not to stick it out, you’d save a bit, by terminating early?”    😉

    That, or:

    “Dad saw the charge on his credit card, so you don’t want to pay the bill.”    ;D

    I’m not saying that you are wrong.  I’m not saying Thomas is wrong.  What I’m saying is, I legitimately see both interpretatons / sides of this, and that you’ll have to settle it between the two of you.

  • #50525
     SephStorm 
    Participant

    I’m sure he does want it resolved. But it may not be resolved to your satisfaction.

  • #50526
     Yet 
    Participant

    I can see that he’s your pal so you can defend him cause you’re entitle to your opinion.
    One quick question so why did he refuse to make refund if he does want to resolve this issue? cause when people are talking they always think someone is stupid .

    @sephstorm wrote:

    I’m sure he does want it resolved. But it may not be resolved to your satisfaction.

  • #50527
     rattis 
    Participant

    @yet wrote:

    @chrisj wrote:

    As for a refund, try that with a University. You sign up for a class, decide you don’t like the teacher and drop. If it’s past the drop date, you’ll get nothing back. The University I’m at, if you wait too long, you get an E for the course.

    I don’t really get your point you mean if i am in the University i can’t request for refund? or when student pay for a complete session & want to drop out they won’t refund? that’s new some times the way people make post they want to make you look stupid  .

    I have spent a lot of time in colleges and universities, including one of the biggest names out there. Over the years, I had to drop some classes. If I dropped them before they began, I got a refund (if I had paid). The only time I ever got a refund after paying, when I dropped any classes after the start of the term, was the one semester I was ran over by a drunk driver.

  • #50528
     Yet 
    Participant

    So i paid a Year subscription i said he should take off the months i spend then refund the others what’s wrong with that? i paid Aug 22 this Year not last Year .

    @chrisj wrote:

    @yet wrote:

    @chrisj wrote:

    As for a refund, try that with a University. You sign up for a class, decide you don’t like the teacher and drop. If it’s past the drop date, you’ll get nothing back. The University I’m at, if you wait too long, you get an E for the course.

    I don’t really get your point you mean if i am in the University i can’t request for refund? or when student pay for a complete session & want to drop out they won’t refund? that’s new some times the way people make post they want to make you look stupid   .

    I have spent a lot of time in colleges and universities, including one of the biggest names out there. Over the years, I had to drop some classes. If I dropped them before they began, I got a refund (if I had paid). The only time I ever got a refund after paying, when I dropped any classes after the start of the term, was the one semester I was ran over by a drunk driver.

  • #50529
     DragonGorge 
    Participant

    Obviously there’s a misunderstanding/miscommunication here. Regardless, there’s an unhappy customer who’s paid a significant amount of money for a product he’s not happy with. He’s not asking for all his money back, only the part he hasn’t spent and doesn’t intend to use. To me, that seems fair.

    I also think the University analogy is not quite accurate here. Typically, a “subscription” comes with the ability to cancel, similar to a magazine, ISP, or a slew of other month-to-month items.

    IMHO, HackingDojo is better served if Yet is given at least a partial refund and both parties walk away at least partly satisfied/dissatisfied. The rationale is that this kind of negative press could end up costing HackingDojo far more than the $1k they “lose”.

    Yet – I recommend you check out the site and see what the refund policy is (assuming there is one). Whenever I make a purchase I find out what the store’s (online or brick/mortar) policy is. If they have a strict no refund policy, I typically take my business elsewhere. I do advise that you try to not to get too inflamed. Wait for Thomas to get back to you and see what you two can work out. Getting angry and getting the other guy angry just causes a stalemate. Good luck.

    Update – I should caveat my post by saying that I am unfamiliar with HackingDojo and it’s setup.

  • #50530
     Yet 
    Participant

    @dragongorge i ain’t mad at anyone, but it seen people are trying to make me looks like the bad guy here or i don’t have the right to request for refund or i did something wrong asking for it .

  • #50531
     DragonGorge 
    Participant

    I don’t think anyone explicitly said you don’t have that right. They’ve just pointed out cases where people don’t get a refund.

    No Refund: car, house, University class,…the list goes on.
    Refund/Credit: Amazon.com, book stores, insurance policy, magazine subscription,…the list goes on.

    Again, stay cool. While I’ve never had any personal dealings with Thomas, from his posts, he seems like an okay guy and someone who’s generally interested in building his course. Remember, try to find out what HackingDojo’s refund policy is. I wouldn’t mind seeing it posted here if it exists.

  • #50532
     Yet 
    Participant

    Well i do business with other people also i always get refund without no problem, this is subscription even University make refund concerning the hackingdojo he stated it clear he has no reason to make refund .

    @dragongorge wrote:

    I don’t think anyone explicitly said you don’t have that right. They’ve just pointed out cases where people don’t get a refund.

    No Refund: car, house, University class,…the list goes on.
    Refund/Credit: Amazon.com, book stores, insurance policy, magazine subscription,…the list goes on.

    Again, stay cool. While I’ve never had any personal dealings with Thomas, from his posts, he seems like an okay guy and someone who’s generally interested in building his course. Remember, try to find out what HackingDojo’s refund policy is. I wouldn’t mind seeing it posted here if it exists.

  • #50533
     dynamik 
    Participant

    I guess I don’t understand why you didn’t just take the exam or blow through the material you already know. Had this been a bait-and-switch, like you’re making it out to be, I’d side with you completely. Instead, it seems like you’ve just decided not to follow the well-publicized progression through the program and are requesting a refund because he won’t make an exception for you. That’s a bit different than the “He ran off with my money” scenario that the title is suggesting. I would personally also be unlikely to refund someone’s money just because he arbitrarily disagreed with the approach.

    The reason the annual subscription is so much cheaper (nearly 50%, I believe) is exactly because you’re paying for it all up-front. It’s ridiculous to expect a 75% refund because you only used 25% of the time. That would get abused to no end. Additionally, the money might get immediately reinvested in marketing, hardware, etc. and no longer be available. The reason these discounts/plans exist is often to spur growth in exchange for less profit overall. If you were unsure that this was going to be a good fit, you should have bought a single month and tested the water prior to making such a commitment.

  • #50534
     Yet 
    Participant

    Well as i said before everyone see things differently, if you most know i didn’t just came here to make post or i want to make awareness or increase my post, i make this thread thus things was unable to resolved also people have to right to agree or disagree but if both parties is unable to resolved issue on common ground they can go their separate ways without questions ask.
     Concerning the refund if there’s no money i get that he can tell me when it would be available no question asked but not to tell me he’s not going to make no refund that’s bully forcing me to accept what i don’t want. Also what do you mean by It’s ridiculous to expect a 75% refund because you only used 25% ? cause that’s really funny maybe you can tell me how this things really works? cause asking him to take off the time i have spent then refund i don’t see big deal with that maybe it’s i don’t really know, also i don’t care if he make exceptions or not .

    @ajohnson wrote:

    I guess I don’t understand why you didn’t just take the exam or blow through the material you already know. Had this been a bait-and-switch, like you’re making it out to be, I’d side with you completely. Instead, it seems like you’ve just decided not to follow the well-publicized progression through the program and are requesting a refund because he won’t make an exception for you. That’s a bit different than the “He ran off with my money” scenario that the title is suggesting. I would personally also be unlikely to refund someone’s money just because he arbitrarily disagreed with the approach.

    The reason the annual subscription is so much cheaper (nearly 50%, I believe) is exactly because you’re paying for it all up-front. It’s ridiculous to expect a 75% refund because you only used 25% of the time. That would get abused to no end. Additionally, the money might get immediately reinvested in marketing, hardware, etc. and no longer be available. The reason these discounts/plans exist is often to spur growth in exchange for less profit overall. If you were unsure that this was going to be a good fit, you should have bought a single month and tested the water prior to making such a commitment.

  • #50535
     hayabusa 
    Participant

    I think ajohnson was explaining that the reason many courses do deep discount subscriptions, with no refunds, is that it costs money to maintain labs, etc.  I don’t think it was suggesting “the money isn’t there because it’s spent on hardware, etc, but when it is, he could refund it, later.”

    The point is, you paid ~ (roughly) half price, or whatever it is, for a year’s access to what could easily be considered intellectual property.  Thomas could easily have had other students waiting in line for your spot, who have since signed up for something else, due to availability.  Those people likely can’t suddenly come around and pay for his, too, as they don’t have any more extra cash lying around than you do.  So now, if he refunds you, not only did you get two months of exceptionally cheaper access, but you’ve in turn cost him more money, in students who missed out.

    Someone contrasted to subscriptions…  Subscriptions to software assume you’ll automatically have it turned off, etc.  Subscriptions to magazines, the same thing.  You aren’t paying someone for their time or access to machines that are costly to maintain.  You  are also not paying their “salary.”

    So again, I’m not taking sides, but simply pointing out that there are multiple sides and reasons to every story.  Thomas may well work something out with you.  Or he may not.  I say be patient, and see how things progress.  Either way, I wish you well with your continued growth / learning / development, an I’m sorry you’re currently disappointed and in a ‘rut.’

  • #50536
     Yet 
    Participant

    @hayabusa i don’t really care if people take side that’s what life is all about people always take side any way, but the question is i don’t really get it what’s wrong for me to request for refund? or asking him to take off the time i have spent there then refund the others ? cause it seen weird that i would pay for what i didn’t use, also paying 1300$ wasn’t cheap i ain’t super rich .

  • #50537
     hayabusa 
    Participant

    Did I say it was wrong to ask for what you feel entitled to?  I believe I’ve repeatedly said, work it out with Thomas.  🙂

    Also, this is totally unrelated…  Why do you keep posting in italics?  For highlighting / emphasizing a word, it’s useful.  But to continually have to read it, it’s giving me a headache… ???

  • #50538
     Yet 
    Participant

    Well don’t you think i try to work it out? before i came to post, he stated it clear he’s not going to make refund .

    @hayabusa wrote:

    Did I say it was wrong to ask for what you feel entitled to?  I believe I’ve repeatedly said, work it out with Thomas.   🙂

    Also, this is totally unrelated…  Why do you keep posting in italics?  For highlighting / emphasizing a word, it’s useful.  But to continually have to read it, it’s giving me a headache… ???

  • #50539
     hayabusa 
    Participant

    OK, but you’ve now made your argument / dispute known, and to your point, Thomas has said, in this thread, that he’ll address it, when he can.  So you’ve now made your concerns public, and have achieved getting his attention.

    One way or another, whether one or both parties walk away satisfied, now, there will be some sort of public settlement (fiscal reimbursement or none, or ‘agree to disagree’) to the issue, and both sides will be heard.

    You’ve expressed your dissatisfaction, and you’ll get an answer.

    ‘Success’

    PS – thanks for killing the italics!  Appreciated!

  • #50540
     dynamik 
    Participant

    This is asinine. There is no other training provider that will give you a partial refund just because. You think OffSec will refund 60 of your 90 lab days because you find the course too hard, or because you think it’s unfair you have to write a report to earn the CPEs? How about SANS after you’re one month into the four months of On-Demand? No way. Do you expect discounts at restaurants when you get full and only end up eating a portion of the food?

    Training, software, music, movies, etc.; when you buy it, it’s yours. You can likely get a replacement if something is defective or goes horribly wrong, such as damaged media, an instructor not showing up, content being offline for extended periods of time, and so on, but it’s extremely rare to get a refund with no questions asked. This is professional training, not a lamp at Walmart.

    This thread seems to be unfairly misleading and negative. There’s a significant difference between “he doesn’t respond to emails” and “he stopped responding to my repeated emails asking for a refund after he told me there wouldn’t be one.” You’ve done nothing to show the course was offered in any manner other than exactly as its described on the website. Unless there was some legitimate negligence on his part, no, I don’t think you’re entitled to a refund just because you want one.

  • #50541
     Yet 
    Participant

    With people like you this is why there’s corruption everywhere cause you fail to see what the bigger picture is too scared to tell out what the truth is or you don’t even know one, people like you always think about yourself just like hackingdojo is thus thinking you knows it all, supporting company to get people ripped off .
    Let me make it clear you’re the misleading one  cause your post stated it clear, who is talking about discount? paying for 3 months Lab is different from subscription.

    Getting sick of people like you trying to make your comment or post count .

    @ajohnson wrote:

    This is asinine. There is no other training provider that will give you a partial refund just because. You think OffSec will refund 60 of your 90 lab days because you find the course too hard, or because you think it’s unfair you have to write a report to earn the CPEs? How about SANS after you’re one month into the four months of On-Demand? No way. Do you expect discounts at restaurants when you get full and only end up eating a portion of the food?

    Training, software, music, movies, etc.; when you buy it, it’s yours. You can likely get a replacement if something is defective or goes horribly wrong, such as damaged media, an instructor not showing up, content being offline for extended periods of time, and so on, but it’s extremely rare to get a refund with no questions asked. This is professional training, not a lamp at Walmart.

    This thread seems to be unfairly misleading and negative. There’s a significant difference between “he doesn’t respond to emails” and “he stopped responding to my repeated emails asking for a refund after he told me there wouldn’t be one.” You’ve done nothing to show the course was offered in any manner other than exactly as its described on the website. Unless there was some legitimate negligence on his part, no, I don’t think you’re entitled to a refund just because you want one.

  • #50542
     shadowzero 
    Participant

    You posted your opinion, and not everyone agrees with you. There’s no need to be hostile.

  • #50543
     Yet 
    Participant

    Yeah i know that not everyone will agree, but his comment went to far making me look like an idiot .

    @shadowzero wrote:

    You posted your opinion, and not everyone agrees with you. There’s no need to be hostile.

  • #50544
     sh4d0wmanPP 
    Participant

    Well I’m sorry to say but I have to agree with ajohnson and can not see how you are entitled to a refund.

    The course clearly stated that an exam is mandatory to progress to the next level. If you refuse to take it and as such can not progress to another level, how would that entitle you to a refund? Yes, you do not use other material but you are occuping a seat that other students could have had. Furthermore, if you do the exam and pass you simply progress as you want. If you have the skills than a report would not be hard to write it only costs you some time.

    Valid reasons for a refund would be:
    – Company ends training activities before your subscription expires
    – No reliable access to labs and study material where it would involve HackingDojo his hosting, not your own internet connection
    Usually a course like this will test connectivity when you start to make sure you can access the material.

  • #50545
     Yet 
    Participant

    Well you don’t need to be sorry cause it’s your opinion i don’t care, simply because i don’t want to write the exam & i want to stop i ain’t entitled to get refund my money? also how i my occupying other seat? when i asked him to cancel my subscription? what’s my business with his hosting didn’t i pay for what i was learning or you were told it was free ?
    Well i am not surprise cause you’re the same with your master why won’t you support him, cause people like you always think you can eat your cake & have it back, always want to strip people & force them to accept what they don’t want .

    @sh4d0wmanpp wrote:

    Well I’m sorry to say but I have to agree with ajohnson and can not see how you are entitled to a refund.

    The course clearly stated that an exam is mandatory to progress to the next level. If you refuse to take it and as such can not progress to another level, how would that entitle you to a refund? Yes, you do not use other material but you are occuping a seat that other students could have had. Furthermore, if you do the exam and pass you simply progress as you want. If you have the skills than a report would not be hard to write it only costs you some time.

    Valid reasons for a refund would be:
    – Company ends training activities before your subscription expires
    – No reliable access to labs and study material where it would involve HackingDojo his hosting, not your own internet connection
    Usually a course like this will test connectivity when you start to make sure you can access the material.

  • #50546
     RoleReversal 
    Participant

    @yet wrote:

    Simply because i don’t want to write the exam & i want to stop i ain’t entitled to get refund my money?

    If that’s all there is to it, I’m going to go with yes. It was YOUR decision to sign-up to the course, and YOUR decision not to take the exam. As others have stated, the criteria for moving through the ranks is well publicised and available prior to sign-up.

    From my perspective (like yours, purely anecdotal) I’m working through the Shodan material (slower than I’d like) but have had all the support I’ve requested from the HD team.

  • #50547
     Yet 
    Participant

    Well i can stop the course if i want & request for refund, there’s no need for people try to tell me i don’t have valid reasons to ask for my money back or request for refund.
    Nobody can tell me my reasons is invalid cause i have a lot of reasons to stop the course, also everyone has their reasons to do what they do .

    @andrew Waite wrote:

    @yet wrote:

    Simply because i don’t want to write the exam & i want to stop i ain’t entitled to get refund my money?

    If that’s all there is to it, I’m going to go with yes. It was YOUR decision to sign-up to the course, and YOUR decision not to take the exam. As others have stated, the criteria for moving through the ranks is well publicised and available prior to sign-up.

    From my perspective (like yours, purely anecdotal) I’m working through the Shodan material (slower than I’d like) but have had all the support I’ve requested from the HD team.

  • #50548
     RoleReversal 
    Participant

    @yet wrote:

    Well i can stop the course if i want & request for refund, there’s no need for people try to tell me i don’t have valid reasons to ask for my money back or request for refund.
    Nobody can tell me my reasons is invalid cause i have a lot of reasons to stop the course, also everyone has their reasons to do what they do .

    You’re quite correct: but there is a difference between you asking for a refund (for whatever reason) and you publicly stating that HackingDojo ripped you off.

  • #50549
     Yet 
    Participant

    Yeah hackingdojo did, cause he said he’s not going to make refund .

    @andrew Waite wrote:

    @yet wrote:

    Well i can stop the course if i want & request for refund, there’s no need for people try to tell me i don’t have valid reasons to ask for my money back or request for refund.
    Nobody can tell me my reasons is invalid cause i have a lot of reasons to stop the course, also everyone has their reasons to do what they do .

    You’re quite correct: but there is a difference between you asking for a refund (for whatever reason) and you publicly stating that HackingDojo ripped you off.

  • #50550
     sh4d0wmanPP 
    Participant

    You have valid reasons to stop however no valid reason for a refund. The fact you have months remaining is because YOU refuse to take a MANDATORY exam. The course provider has not broken any agreement or rules. You try to change those yourself and by doing so you are at the mercy of the course provider.

    I don’t know where you are from and don’t want to judge you on that. Maybe your country has less formal rules. However where I am from (Europe) you can not simply request a refund when you have signed up for a course and find some aspects in the course you not like. This is why you have to accept the user agreement before signing up and after that you are bound to it.

    This is the last time I will reply here as you seem to have made up your mind and will not do anything with comments that differ from it. Good luck.

  • #50551
     SephStorm 
    Participant

    Logically, I have to agree with the above poster. It is unlikely that you are ENTITLED to a refund, however, I encourage you to work with the site admin when he is healthy to reach a solution.

    Now, to prevent such an issue in the future, you may want to contact the vendor and explain your intent, and your request, and you may be able to work something out.

    I hope this provides some perspective.

  • #50552
     prats84 
    Participant

    Leaving the Yet issue of refund at a debate.
    I am not debating wether the money should be a refund or not but what Yet is trying to say is the way HackingDojo deals with this kind of situations is not correct.

    What about my issue?
    I didnt even get to start the course. I waited for course confirmation details and nothing came. All the refund emails were ignored.

  • #50553
     BillV 
    Participant

    Wow.

    I got through as much of this thread as I could take.

    The bottom line is this:


    – Yes, you are absolutely, 100%, allowed to ask for/request a refund for whatever you want, regardless of what your reasons are.

    – No, you will not always be given a refund

    My opinion is this: I do not think you are entitled to a refund and I support the decision already made by Thomas/HackingDojo.

    However, I will refund you $5 USD if you stop posting (in this thread/about this topic)

  • #50554
     Dark_Knight 
    Participant

    @BillV wrote:

    Wow.

    I got through as much of this thread as I could take.

    The bottom line is this:


    – Yes, you are absolutely, 100%, allowed to ask for/request a refund for whatever you want, regardless of what your reasons are.

    – No, you will not always be given a refund

    My opinion is this: I do not think you are entitled to a refund and I support the decision already made by Thomas/HackingDojo.

    However, I will refund you $5 USD if you stop posting (in this thread/about this topic)

    + 5USD

  • #50555
     rattis 
    Participant

    @prats84 wrote:

    What about my issue?
    I didnt even get to start the course. I waited for course confirmation details and nothing came. All the refund emails were ignored.

    prats84, when I quit the hackingdojo (I went back to a university), emails were hit or miss, but talking to him on IRC worked very well.

  • #50556
     Yet 
    Participant

    The thing i understand is that people like you no reason is good enough, you people always look for way to turn it down because of the intentions you people have .

    .@sh4d0wmanpp wrote:

    You have valid reasons to stop however no valid reason for a refund. The fact you have months remaining is because YOU refuse to take a MANDATORY exam. The course provider has not broken any agreement or rules. You try to change those yourself and by doing so you are at the mercy of the course provider.

    I don’t know where you are from and don’t want to judge you on that. Maybe your country has less formal rules. However where I am from (Europe) you can not simply request a refund when you have signed up for a course and find some aspects in the course you not like. This is why you have to accept the user agreement before signing up and after that you are bound to it.

    This is the last time I will reply here as you seem to have made up your mind and will not do anything with comments that differ from it. Good luck.

    @BillV wrote:

    Wow.

    I got through as much of this thread as I could take.

    The bottom line is this:


    – Yes, you are absolutely, 100%, allowed to ask for/request a refund for whatever you want, regardless of what your reasons are.

    – No, you will not always be given a refund

    My opinion is this: I do not think you are entitled to a refund and I support the decision already made by Thomas/HackingDojo.

    However, I will refund you $5 USD if you stop posting (in this thread/about this topic)

    But i ain’t surprise with the kind of post people like you always post cause you don’t know what’s like, you think this is child play? no wonder you are like your master supporting him to rip people off, always posting meaningless post so that your post will count writing out of point spamming topic .

  • #50557
     Grendel 
    Participant

    I see the “conversation” has spanned 4 pages in just a day or two… as promised I will provide my experience and thought process to explain my decision to not provide Yet a refund.

    Refund policy:
    I use PayPal for my payment handling. What that does for me (besides process payments) is allows me to use their dispute resolution process for any issues such as contentions about what was promised / what was delivered. In order to sign up for my course, students have to agree to the paypal policies, which include remediation procedures that I believe are fair. It gives new students 45-60 days to contest their purchase, and provides students with information on how to proceed with other methods (going to the CC provider, etc.), if not satisfied with PayPal’s resolution and arbitration process. I do not expand or outline the paypal policy on my web site since I don’t have / desire to have a team of lawyers debating each little word in an agreement. I pay a processing fee that allows me to avoid dealing with financial disputes, and permits me to focus on running the dojo.

    Yet’s activities in the Hacking Dojo:
    Shortly after Yet had access to the material, he and I had numerous (hours) worth of discussions regarding the content, starting with the novice material and advancing thorugh the Shodan material. This time included live chat sessions (via skype) in which I would answer his questions. During this time, Yet did not post any of the home work on the forum as requested in each assignment. Although disconcerting to an instructor, this did not mean he wasn’t learning, nor was it an issue that would disqualify him from taking the shodan exam. It wasn’t until his refusal to take the exam did any problem present itself.

    Yet’s complaints about the course material:
    Once I understood Yet refused to advance, and that he wanted a refund, I asked him “can you explain where I have not met the conditions of the training as outlined in the FAQs or student wiki?” in which he replied “Hmm, don’t get me wrong i never said you didn’t met the conditions on your training FAQs, i can’t write the exam or test also some issue just came up that i need to deal with them, also when we talked i have always told you your course is very good .” He then insisted I refund all but $300 of the yearly payment made for attendence at the dojo.

    Yet has also complained (on this site specifically) that his access to the lab was blocked. When he brought this to my attention (after I told him there would be no refund) I emailed him the following: “I just checked the lab and its online. Check the wiki; the IP address changed,” in which he replied “Well good for you, what I don’t get why you don’t have problem canceling the subscription.”

    Cost of the Dojo so far:
    Currently, the breakdown of the course material at the Hacking Dojo is broken down as follows: Novice course ($199), Shodan course ($850), Nidan course ($850). The Shodan and Nidan courses each can be paid over 6 months if preferred (see the web site for specifics). Paid separately, Yet would have been responsible for $1049 so far. He has paid $1300 (which would actually allow him to progress as far as he could in the year’s time, to the web hacking / network hacking / reverse engineering course assuming he passed each level’s exam).

    My denial of his refund:
    On the 15th of October, after numerous emails about this subject, I told Yet that “based on your own acknowledgement, I have supplied you with the materials with no complaints from your end. Currently, you are asking for a refund simply because you prefer not to live up to the requirements for advancement. I see no reason to issue a refund and will not discuss it further. Access to the material will be left open, and I look forward working with you to obtain advancement in our program.”

    My reason for not refunding any of the payment is because of the acknowledgement by Yet that I had done no harm in our agreement, and it was simply his choice not to follow the requirements for advancement. Had there been technical issues that negatively impacted his training, I would have either extended his access to the material or refunded him, based on his current progress (had it not been almost two months, the refund could have a full refund if it was regarding technical issues – his issue or mine wouldn’t matter).

    I have in the past fully refunded student’s fees and will so in the future, assuming both sides are attempting to resolve the issue; but in the case of Yet, there was no compelling reason to do so.

    Bottom line:
    Although Yet is unsatisfied with my explanation regarding his request for a refund, I will still live up to my end of the agreement and provide him access to the material and mentoring sessions for the term of his enrollment.It is up to him to take advantage of his purchase. On a personal note, his tone in the forums is mild compared to his personal emails. Despite this, I will do what I can to propel him along the path of professional penetration testing, assuming he is still willing to learn.

  • #50558
     Grendel 
    Participant

    @maxe wrote:

    Even though I haven’t had any bad experience with the Hacking Dojo, I think you should contact http://attrition.org/ about this. (Twitter: attritionorg , Email: jericho[at]attrition.org)

    Dude – pretty harsh, especially for right out of the gate, don’t you think?
    😉

  • #50559
     Grendel 
    Participant

    @prats84 wrote:

    What about my issue?
    I didnt even get to start the course. I waited for course confirmation details and nothing came. All the refund emails were ignored.

    Prats84 – I will PM you and we can figure out what happened.

  • #50560
     BillV 
    Participant

    @yet wrote:

    But i ain’t surprise with the kind of post people like you always post cause you don’t know what’s like, you think this is child play? no wonder you are like your master supporting him to rip people off, always posting meaningless post so that your post will count writing out of point spamming topic .

    Yes, that’s exactly what I’m doing. How’d you know? ::)

    Because of your ignorance, and because you are an idiot, I will no longer honor my offer to refund you $5 USD nor will I waste time replying to you any further.

    Best of luck to you.

  • #50561
     BillV 
    Participant

    Thomas: I think everything you’ve stated is fair. I support your decision and would also not give him a refund.

    If his tone was worse in personal emails than on this forum, I would likely remove his access. For that, you are a better person than I 🙂

    Hope you’re feeling better.

  • #50562
     Grendel 
    Participant

    @BillV wrote:

    Hope you’re feeling better.

    Thank you, sir. I am out of the hospital, but not out of the woods. Next 10 days will tell, but I don’t think there will be any complications.

  • #50563
     Yet 
    Participant

    Well you can say what you like i don’t care cause you’re bigger idiot  .

    @BillV wrote:

    @yet wrote:

    But i ain’t surprise with the kind of post people like you always post cause you don’t know what’s like, you think this is child play? no wonder you are like your master supporting him to rip people off, always posting meaningless post so that your post will count writing out of point spamming topic .

    Yes, that’s exactly what I’m doing. How’d you know? ::)

    Because of your ignorance, and because you are an idiot, I will no longer honor my offer to refund you $5 USD nor will I waste time replying to you any further.

    Best of luck to you.

  • #50564
     hayabusa 
    Participant

    @yet wrote:

    Well you’re hypocrite thus i don’t care what you think Coward .

    Coward??? WTH did that come from?  By what definition of anything ANYONE has said, here, can you find a coward?

    I could say the same for ‘hypocrite’…

  • #50565
     hayabusa 
    Participant

    Grendel…  good luck to you, sir.  Get well and best wishes!

  • #50566
     Yet 
    Participant

    Because you never had the intention to make refund, thus i can request for refund if there’s disagreement or unsatisfied with your course,  you can’t tell me my reasons is the cause or the mails that i sent you or my reasons wasn’t good enough .

  • #50567
     Don Donzal 
    Keymaster

    I think everyone has had their say.

    Topic closed.

    Don

The topic ‘My Experience With Hackingdojo Ripped Off My Money’ is closed to new replies.

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