Mile2 says CPTE is a much better cert than CEH. True?

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    • #6910
      p0et
      Participant

      I was on the phone with Mile2 (among other training companies) and they told me the person who they have teaching the CPTE course is the same person who was teaching and marketing the CEH course.  Mile2 told me that this guy was the first person to actually market CEH cert and now he says the CPTE is a much more dominant course and goes deeper into the modules as well as covering more subjects.  He said he’s suggesting everyone who’s thinking about the CEH to take the CPTE instead.  He says the labs for CEH are poorly written, hard to get through all the slides, and still very old material in the new CEH.

      I was just googling around and found this article: http://mile2.com/articles/157-cpte-vs-ceh.html

      What do you guys think about CPTE vs CEH?  As far as security goes, I’ve done the Security+ and the SANS GCIH.

      Thanks!

    • #42824
      impelse
      Participant

      No body says bad things about their own house, they will never say something bad about themselves, we need feedback from the student perspective

    • #42825
      tturner
      Participant

      Depends on your reason for the training/cert.

      CEH has a significantly stronger brand than CPTE so if you are doing it to grease the HR wheels than the choice is pretty clear. I can’t speak to the quality of either program but just want to put things in perspective for you. Most folks I know agree, that if you want to learn and are on a budget take OSCP. If you have budget do OSCP/OSCE + GPEN/GWAPT/GXPN/GAWN. If you want to get an interview, do the CEH (or CISSP – regardless if it’s not a pentest cert) because most HR folks have no clue what those other jumble of letters are.

    • #42826
      p0et
      Participant

      Yeah, that’s the first thing that came to mind, about the company just wanting to make their own course sound more important and sought after than the CEH.  It was odd though that she told me this CPTE trainer was the first person to market the CEH certification years ago and one of the first CEH trainers but now he’s telling people that the CPTE is/will be better on the resume and more up to date/relevant content which you can actually practice with in class.

      I’m just searching now for CPTE vs CEH comparisons.  My employer (gov’t) is very stingy when it comes to training $$ so it would be a miracle if they pay for even 1 course.  Just trying to make sure I push for the right course to take.  I’m wanting the course for my resume as well as for my own personal learning/grow my skills/knowledge.

      I’ll take a look at OSCP as well but it talks about having to craft custom tailored exploits among other things to pass the practical exam and I know very little programming, let alone how to create a custom exploit.

    • #42827
      YuckTheFankees
      Participant

      p0et, I am in the same boat as you. OSCP looks fun as hell but the creating exploits and programming aspect scares the daylights out of me lol The only type of experience I have with stuff like that is writing some basic shell scripts.

    • #42828
      former33t
      Participant

      CEH is great for HR only.  When I do technical interviews, I always ask CEH certified folks how they feel CEH has prepared them to work in security.  Those with other certs (who are on the level) usually tell me that it was a cake walk compared to cert X (besides say A+).  Those who only have the CEH regularly tell me how difficult it is and how they are totally prepared to audit, hack, or my networks.  These people seriously oversell the certification.  Bottom line, book knowledge doesn’t get you anything in security unless you can do it and CEH doesn’t measure that.

      I agree that OSCP/OSCE is the way to go.  I took the OSCE course and couldn’t be happier.  I am yet to sit for the certification due to an insanely busy year, but will certainly hire those that have it over those that have CEH.

    • #42829
      p0et
      Participant

      If I remember correctly, all of my certs have been book knowledge (and bootcamp) only.  I’d love to have a more hands on/practical course and exam.  In addition to the OCSE/OSCP, I was told from mile2 that the CPTE is much more hands on than the CEH course.  Not sure if that’s true or not but I’d love to find out. 

    • #42830
      YuckTheFankees
      Participant

      Does anyone know how they are “hands on”? Is there some sort of lab that is mixed in the test?

      How many of you have actually took a class with mile2?

    • #42831
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Really good question I agree with most what has been said here I also know from experience of going to interviews in the UK. Some companies value CEH and some think its waste of time and not worth the paper its written on.

      I personally looked at doing CEH but found it to be very tool based and also felt there were much better cert to do than CEH like OSCP or even elarnsecurity in the end i didn’t have the money to do any 🙁

    • #42832
      SephStorm
      Participant

      Haven’t taken the class yet, I’m hoping to win this month’s contest and see if they will do a ground course.

      From what I have seen, their videos are detailed enough that you can certainly find the (very relevant) tools and use them. If im not mistaken, I remember the instructor doing a demo of (I cant remember the name, it was a data aggregation reconnaissance tool.)

      BTW, Mile2 was indeed one of the first ATC’s for EC-Council. If i’m not mistaken, Wayne Burke was one of their instructors. Indeed, I think M2 was involved in a lawsuit with ECC, but they settled.

    • #42833
      YuckTheFankees
      Participant

      After going on Mile2’s website, their products are definitely worth of trying but money is the problem. One of the good things about this month’s prizes, is that we will have the chance to get 12 reviews on Mile2’s products. it should answer a lot of our questions regarding them.

    • #42834
      hayabusa
      Participant

      @YuckTheFankees – this is true…

    • #42835
      p0et
      Participant

      Just had a look at this month’s giveaway.  Man, looks like I should try and win one of those mile2 courses and see for myself! 😉  I hate having such a cheap employer and having to do everything out of my own pocket. Can’t wait to hear the reviews about mile2.

    • #42836
      YuckTheFankees
      Participant

      I think we all have cheap employers lol 12 prizes is a lot of stuff to go around.  ;D

    • #42837
      impelse
      Participant

      @p0et wrote:

      I hate having such a cheap employer and having to do everything out of my own pocket. Can’t wait to hear the reviews about mile2.

      Welcome to the club, I am paying everything from my pocket too

    • #42838
      rattis
      Participant

      something that worked for me recently, slide this under management (in my case several directors) doors.

      http://www.softwarequalityconnection.com/2011/05/i-like-my-it-budget-tight-and-my-developers-stupid/

    • #42839
      impelse
      Participant

      Great article.

    • #42840
      Darktaurus
      Participant

      @chrisj wrote:

      something that worked for me recently, slide this under management (in my case several directors) doors.

      http://www.softwarequalityconnection.com/2011/05/i-like-my-it-budget-tight-and-my-developers-stupid/

      I agree! That article is incredible!

    • #42841
      SephStorm
      Participant

      @YuckTheFankees wrote:

      After going on Mile2’s website, their products are definitely worth of trying but money is the problem. One of the good things about this month’s prizes, is that we will have the chance to get 12 reviews on Mile2’s products. it should answer a lot of our questions regarding them.

      Yeah, my big think is waiting. I dont know if I am going to win or not, but the results are posted next month, AFTER the promotion is over, so I kind of dont want to miss the opportunity. I’ll probably order the CPTE pack and then if I win, take the IH course.

    • #42842
      impelse
      Participant

      I think the same, 50% is good.

    • #42843
      YuckTheFankees
      Participant

      Yeah 50% is a crazy deal. Whoever buys a course, definitely give us feedback. I’ve heard of mile2 but reviews for them are far and few between.

    • #42844
      p0et
      Participant

      Awesome article, thanks Chris. 🙂

      The most my employer paid for was a mandatory $50 “strength finders” book which basically just told me my top strengths are that I’m a “quick learner” and have “adaptability”. lol

    • #42845
      p0et
      Participant

      I’m about to submit my training request at work.  So if you’re in my position with the certs I have, what would you do? 

      CEHv7 (in person) for $2500 (including exam voucher)
        OR
      CPTE  (live virtual training) for $3000 + exam fee

      I’m also going to ask about CCNA bootcamp.

    • #42846
      Dark_Knight
      Participant

      @p0et wrote:

      I’m about to submit my training request at work.  So if you’re in my position with the certs I have, what would you do?  

      CEHv7 (in person) for $2500 (including exam voucher)
        OR
      CPTE  (live virtual training) for $3000 + exam fee

      I’m also going to ask about CCNA bootcamp.

      Neither. I would shoot for the OSCP. And if your ok with spending 3K+ I would consider SANS GPEN. It all depends on your goals.

    • #42847
      rattis
      Participant

      Not knowing your goals, or what your business is. I ‘d go for the CEH. Only because of the DOD backing… bu that’s just me.

    • #42848
      SephStorm
      Participant

      My opinion, I would do the CPTE, 1, so we can get the review, 2, with the training they are providing, you could likely go challenge and pass the CEH.

    • #42849
      p0et
      Participant

      I do want to try the OSCP but on these forums, it seems that it’s better to have a jumping off point with getting the CEH or CPTE training first.  OSCP looks pretty intense and not sure how well I’d do if I jump right into that.  

      Yeah, with the training one would receive from taking the CPTE course, you could probably challenge the CEH exam (but I know my work won’t pay $600 just to challenge one exam and I can’t afford that either unfortunately).  

      I assume that I’d learn more by being in person at a course vs virtual training but not too sure.  The CPTE is probably about $1000 more expensive in the end and it’s only virtual training.  Hmm…  I’ll go compare the syllabus of both courses and see just what the differences are (they still look similar to me).  

      I have a feeling that the team I’m on now may say no to everything anyways!  :-  They may just have a budget of around $1K in which case I may end up going for something cheaper like OSCP or eLearnSecurity.

    • #42850
      rance
      Participant

      I haven’t read the replies here, but, I’ll give my take on CEH.  No offense to anyone that has one, but I found it to be a pretty good waste of time.  Now, I took the v3 or v4 CEH exam, but I found it to be one of those silly memorization tests.

      What port does this backdoor run on?
      What flag do you use in nmap to perform an OS fingerprit scan?

      Seems to be a serious abundance of these types of questions, where I wanted to answer “google” or “that’s what –help is for”.  I feel like these exams are fairly worthless, especially for what you pay.  You might get SOME decent knowledge about actual “ethical hacking”, but it’s sparse compared to the menial flags and stuff you have to memorize.

      I was excited when I first passed the exam, but quickly realized I wouldn’t be paying to take it again.  The CPE system was not in place after I took my initial exam, so I would have had to take the exam again… won’t waste my time.

      Try to find something that’s more hands-on, and actually gives you practical skills for penetrating apps and networks.  Memorizing a bunch of ports isn’t going to get you there.

      IMHO, YMMV, ICUP, etc…

    • #42851
      p0et
      Participant

      I received a call from someone at Mile2 and man he was energetic! lol  He mainly had these points:
      1. Mile2 was the first vendor to provide CEH training.
      2. They remained the largest supporter and vendor for CEH training until they bailed and ran away from CEH.
      3. They got tired of waiting weeks for the material from EC-Council only for it to be outdated when they finally got it.
      4. They weren’t sure why EC-Council couldn’t afford to have Europeans or North American security pro’s to write the material.
      5. He used the line “CEH is not worth the paper it’s printed on” and CPTE as well as SANS courses are much more sophisticated, methodical, practical and hands on.

      I tend to steer clear of people who bash their competition but in this case, I think he’s right.  😉

    • #42852
      SephStorm
      Participant

      Somewhat. I wouldnt agree with “CEH is not worth the paper it’s printed on”.

    • #42853
      rance
      Participant

      I want to back track a little on my previous reply.  I don’t want to say the CEH is worthless, there ARE some underlying topics that would be good for the absolute BEGINNER.  I just don’t think the name and cert jive with what the material has to offer.  I think I’d call the course “Foundations of Ethical Hacking” or something like that.  You’re not going to come away with a CEH cert and get right in to a pro pen test job, the course just doesn’t give you those skills.

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