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I mean, i don’t know how these things work anymore, so maybe if I give control over the the virus’s and trojens a smart one will come in and clean up the system, then I’ll just ask nicely when I want to check my email with some amount of speed and the virus program wont mind giving up some kbs once and a while. What do ya guys think. Any takers? You gotta be good at it though, im looking for premium service here. I’ll give you the whole g-n network if you just let me run my porn for a few hours without reduclious waits every 5 seconds! Killing me!
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I’m 100% confused, except that this person seems to have a p0rn fetish… Oh well, to each his own. As for you, Ishmael, this isn’t the board, nor are the members of any interest, to help you surf for p0rn. If you pick up a virus from that activity, well, the ethical hacker’s point of view would be ‘Stop surfing for that stuff to begin with!’ (DUH)
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@hayabusa wrote:
I’m 100% confused, except that this person seems to have a p0rn fetish…
Who doesn’t?
Oh well, to each his own.
Ok, I think you are judging. 🙂
As for you, Ishmael, this isn’t the board, nor are the members of any interest, to help you surf for p0rn. If you pick up a virus from that activity, well, the ethical hacker’s point of view would be ‘Stop surfing for that stuff to begin with!’ (DUH)
That is a true statement.
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@hayabusa wrote:
B.) No, not judging.
That’s what all the judgers say.
blah blah blah..your p0rn habit is wrong, you evildoer..blah blah blah
See? You just have to read between the lines.
🙂 I’m just kidding. 🙂
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@hayabusa wrote:
unsupported, you crack me up some days! ;D
You mean the days which do not end in “y”? 🙂 All the other times I’m sure you just shake your head and say “There’s unsupported again!”
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Sorry to disagree, but I was thinking that this is actually a good case study to discuss the philosophy of what people will live with when it comes to their computers. Being lazy in installing one of many products that are free and have auto-updates and scans, and in turn decides to be complicit to a crime. I think that it’s not only a clear indication of the state of mind of most users, but also great news for the malware industry.
So the question is, for us ethical hackers, is how do we get through to users like this that his laziness is actually helping criminals attack people he will never know, helps finance the bad guys, and that, as an online society, it matters to be a good citizen. Hmmmmm???
Don
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Don,
Part of me is a little surprised already. I figured by now, someone would have started writing code, for the sole purpose of cleaning up boxes. We’ve seen some of it with the bots starting to attack each other, but I figured there would be enough altruistic hackers out there to build a nice system.
I think the bigger problem is, people want money not good feelings.
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@don wrote:
Sorry to disagree, but I was thinking that this is actually a good case study to discuss the philosophy of what people will live with when it comes to their computers.
I’m not arguing the validity of the discussion, just the intent of the original post, in general. I have no issues with educating the general public about what they should or shouldn’t do to protect themselves. However, general direction, on my part, would be to stop surfing for the material that’s obviously giving you the grief to begin with. (That’s all to my original point.)
Again, I agree fully with public ‘education.’
EDIT:
It’s like a doctor or law enforcement official, educating a drug user… (in the sense that they should exercise common sense) If someone complains that they are impaired from the use of drugs or alcohol, rather than tell them ‘Use this drug or medicine to counteract the effects, but keep on using,’ they’re going to say something more alone the line of ‘don’t use in the first place.’ It’s also like pregnancy, in that if a specific activity is KNOWN to be the root of your issues, then abstinence is the best protection. Don’t get me wrong… again, I believe in educating the public on the proper tools, etc. Just saying, in this case, common sense should prevail…
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@don wrote:
And like educating a drug user, it’s a thankless job. But we’ll keep doing it anyway with a smile on our collective faces.
Don
In my experience drug users will only be able to sustain a healthy/drug free life if they make the decision to help themselves. It’s the first step. Oh, wait… I feel a new mock website idea. CIA, Computer Illiterates Anonymous? The first step is admitting you have a problem.
(Adapted from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_steps)
1. We admitted we were powerless over computers—that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power-User greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of the Admin, as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Tweeted to Admin, to ourselves, and to another computer the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have Admin remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Admin to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all computers we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such computers wherever possible, except when to do so would infect them or others.
10. Continued to update anti-virus and when we were infected promptly cleaned it.
11. Sought through scandisk and defragmentation to improve our conscious contact with Admin as we understood Him, Facebooking only for knowledge of His will for us and the power supply to carry that out.
12. Having had a digital awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to computer illiterates, and to practice these principles in all our affairs. -
@chrisj wrote:
Don,
Part of me is a little surprised already. I figured by now, someone would have started writing code, for the sole purpose of cleaning up boxes. We’ve seen some of it with the bots starting to attack each other, but I figured there would be enough altruistic hackers out there to build a nice system.
I think the bigger problem is, people want money not good feelings.
White worms have been discussed at great length, I’ve been a part of some of those heated discussions. What it boils down to is access. By creating a “white worm”, you are accessing and changing a system you do not have permission to do so. The debate started long ago with Code Red (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_Red_%28computer_worm%29) and the theoretical Code Green worm.
The biggest one that sticks out in my mind is Welchia (aka Nachi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welchia), which exploited Microsoft security flaws in order to patch them. In turn forcing reboots.
Other worms have similar concepts, but mainly used to closing the backdoor once they get in, like Conficker and Slammer. There are also some macro viruses which have really advanced this idea for EVIL.
Thanks to my co-worker for collaboration on this. 🙂
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Just wanted to mention, the idea of good viruses, goes back much further. Dr Fred Cohen wrote some interesting papers about it. Most AV companies won’t even consider the possibility, because part of what they are selling is trust.
That said, the Morris worm is a classic example of why even a good/research worm, might not be a good idea. No matter how careful people are, only testing a worm on a private network, lysine deficiency type stuff.. Things can still go wrong. Particularly when on the Internet, it’s a lot harder to guess/programatically determine what OS a host is running, what strange drivers/other malware/other network apps are running etc., and be sure that your worm will run as you want. -
I had the same thoughts, adamj. Whatever your intends might be and how good they are, there are way too many possibilities and combinations where you can’t tell if everything would really go as planned. The exactly behavior in each situation is not possible to foresee and therefore one might led to some sort of crash or disaster. If such a scenario would happen, even if it was very rare, would the authors (government?) take responsibility then?
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