This topic has come up several times, so I thought I would get the feedback of everyone before making a decision dealing with exam questions. And as most of you know, I truly value the opinion of the members.

In this thread a member posts some questions from the Actual Tests practice exam for CEH. We could debate the legality of how they get their questions and answers, but the real question lies in whether to allow this. Another member was quite adament in his thoughts in not allowing this. My response in that post was:


It would be different if he said that he had the following questions on the exam and wasn't sure of the answer. That would break the agreement between the cert org and the exam taker.

We're here to educate, so helping on a practice exam should be encouraged. This is a free and open forum that usually does well moderating itself. Perfect example is when another member posted questions from a different exam's practice test but simply asked for the answers with no mention on what he thought the answers might be. Negrita and a few other members were quick to reply that we at least need a little effort on their part before continuing the discussion. I thought that was a well handle situation.

We're here to help, but we're mostly here to teach. This method requires contributions from the person asking the questions. That's how a mentor/mentee student/teacher relationship is supposed to work. So my initial reaction is to allow it.

What is everyone's feeling on this?

Don

OK, so answer this for me, then?

I'm aware of "Testkillers", where you buy actual test questions and answers. Assuming "Actual Tests" is the same thing, and they bought the practice exam from "Actual Tests", what is the difference there?

Testkillers comes out and says they are actual test questions and answers. I'm not familiar with "Actual Tests", but I take it they are the same thing. In the same vein as Transcenders, and Boson. Your'e buying these as well, so the people at Actual Tests probably wouldn't appreciate their questions and answers being posted here, either. A lawsuit is a lawsuit, wehter you're being sued by Actual Tests,Trancenders, Boson, or Testkillers.

I still maintain maybe they should do this via email or PM. Understanding the idea of teaching; Don, is it possible to perhaps set up an agreement with EC-council to have our own version here of a practice test with a bank of questions that randomize so each time it is a different test? Could we have this done WITH the permission of EC-Council? Is something like this possible? If it is, that would be great; why stop with the CEH? We could have it for the CHFI, and the CNDA, as well.

Just a thought....

Well I find myself obligated to reply to this thread. Firstly before I start out I must make a disclaimer; I am a moderator at the forums at http://bb.mcsebraindumps.com/. I am not an employee at that site and any opinions stated by me in this thread are my own. 

While the things stated by Oyle are factually correct, I must disagree with his opinion. I feel that practice questions (regardless of there source) are a valuable study aid if used correctly and in conjunction with a variety of other study methods too such as taking a course/bootcamp, reading a book, hands-on experience, watching CBT's, etc. I highly discourage using practice questions as a sole study source for an exam. Doing this wil only get you a "paper cert" and you'll be weeded out in job interviews or shortly after starting work very quickly.

Regarding legal issues

Oyle has provided us with a partial quote from the ActualTests website Terms of Use. If you however follow the link and continue reading beyond the place where Oyle has cut his quote short, you will notice that Actualtests have a copyright for the produce, and they legally own the intelectual rights to that produce. If Microsoft/Cisco/EC-Council etc. where to sue Actualtests/Testking etc, for breach of the NDA, a student who has bought a product from Actualtests/Testking is only an innocent 3rd party and cannot be considered as cheating. BTW seeing as I've mentioned them, Testking also have a similar legal disclaimer here. What's more, the student only signs the NDA when he does the exam and it usually deals with disclosure of the exam content from that moment on, and not with the students behaviour retrospectively, so any claims that a student has cheated by using that produce are null and void.

BTW, further on they also disclaim the accuracy of their produce and provide it "as is", so you can only blame yourself if you trust their answers (or questions for that matter) blindly;


Regarding Oyles' opinion


This statement is defamatory, and I object to it.  While I appreciate your patriotism Oyle, I feel that Pakistanis and Arabs have the same right to own copyrights and intellectual property as anyone else, and the fact that they do is not "even less reason to consider them credible". I find it strange that after slamming Troytec, you suddenly are willing to stand by them for patriotic reasons.

Regarding posting of questions on this site

I agree with Kev on this.

Posting a question saying "I got this question on my exam and I wasn't sure what the answer is" should be moderated as a breach of the NDA. Furthermore I feel that we're not here to do other peoples homework for them. If someone posts a question, they should at least say which answer they think is correct and why, or why they think that the given answer is wrong. Posting of questions should be limited to only those questions that the poster is unsure of. Don't forget that Actualtests, Testking and others also have a copyright, and posting their entire Q&A here without their prior consent would be a breach of their copyright.

I think that the abscence of any posting guidelines on this site is a major factor, hindering both the posters who don't know if what they're posting is allowed and also the Moderators/Admin who need some guiding as to what should be allowed, edited or deleted. Kudos to don who has untill now done a great job using his discretion when moderating. you're welcome to look through the posting guidelines at mcsebraindumps.com for something to use and build upon.

I mostly agree with Negrita and Kev and I'd like to add another reason to use those kind of "study guides":

I've taken a number of different kind of tests so far (M$, Comptia, Mile2, Guidance) and found that the content - what was asked for - is somewhat questionable in a lot of these tests.

On one hand there are a lot of questions where the whole content (the question and the proposed answers) has nothing to do with real world or at least comprehensible  scenarios, on the other hand on some of these exams there are outdated and poor worded questions where even the meaning is hard to understand (not only on these study guides, I've seen this kind of questions on live exams too).

Even if you really know your business sometimes it's really hard to guess what answer they want to see - and that can make it sometimes hard to pass an exam without having the possibility to prepare yourself by the means of these "Study Guides".

The point is that the questions in these guides are often worded as bad as they are in the real exams - so without posting a question exactly as it is printed sometimes it is not possible to find the wanted (not necessarily the right) answer...

Hi

I feel inclined to respond to this discussion as I have posted some questions from TK in search of answers and I was a primary contributor for the thread in question.

My primary feeling is most new users are attacted to this site are potetial CEH exam takers (I know I was). Therefore the group should help the members to get through the exams.

I know that the TK helped me alot to focus on the areas I should concentrate.

IMHO Dons approach is correct. We should allow (and encourage) people to discuss the exap prep questions.

About legality  of the content - I wouldnt know. The TOS of TK ,AT and such is actually BS IMO. Most questions are reproductions of the real exam. So who is actually violating the copyright ? The poster ? the Exam Prep site ? -- I event dont want to think about it.

Regards

yep, sure, whatever you say, its not the wrong thing if i dont think about it...

i'm not saying we shouldnt discuss a question or two (that's how we learn), but to take the attitude that I'm an IT guy i wont worry about the legality of things things is probably not the ethically correct road to go down. 

I'm gonna standy by my statement and you can stand by yours that the beauty of being your own person (and the internet), but sometimes you gotta call a spade a spade and go from there...(and that's not a racist comment)

me personally (and it just my opinion which doesnt mean anything to anyone but me), wouldnt take too much stock in anyone's certification if they came and told me that ALL THEY used was cheat exams to get it. 

IMHO, there will be no a breach of agreement if posted question was based on (possible official) study guide for the exam.

In case the question truly can be found in the real exam, authorized person should/can contact forum administrator any time and ask to exclude the question from the view.