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You are here: Home arrow Ethical Hacking Discussions and Related Certificationsarrow Network Pen Testingarrow OSCP - Offensive Security Certified Professionalarrow OSCP vs Hacking Dojo
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Author Topic: OSCP vs Hacking Dojo  (Read 20403 times)
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lorddicranius
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« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2011, 03:25:53 PM »

Hacking Dojo provides you with vulnerable ISO's to work with.  It requires you to either have an spare machine to use, or just use a virtual environment (VMWare Player/Workstation, VirtualBox, etc).  I think most of us students have gone the virtual environment route.

My virtual environment is overloaded at the moment (runs on my laptop). Wink
So I really do need a new box just for running the VM environment for a lab.

lol I know what you mean.  My current "mobile lab" isn't beefy enough to run many VM's.  I really do need another machine, too.
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El33tsamurai
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« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2011, 05:09:01 PM »

A vm is just not as real as a real machine you know what I mean? 

Actually, no. Not sure what you mean. Smiley Considering everyone is consolidating to VM Systems, I think a VM is more real world like than not.

1) hosting sites are leveraging hardware costs by doing VMs
2) companies are doing the same in rented data centers by buying blades and moving to vms. Or buying pizza box servers and installing VMS

Cloud? Yep...

I'm reading the latest edition of Hacking Exposed: Web Applications (3rd edition), and it talks about people using VMs too. My examples I listed above though were from personal experience.

1) VM's take away the ability to allow you to hack wireless.
2) VM's there are no routers or switches to go through.
3) Its a Fake network.

Yes everyone is going VM's but in your fake VM lab you don't have what I have stated above which are huge parts of businesses.

If you look at me have a laptop that can hold alot but no switch's, router's, extra so having something like that available to practice I feel is more real word.  Does this make more sense when I say you know what I mean?
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lorddicranius
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« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2011, 07:19:19 PM »

A vm is just not as real as a real machine you know what I mean? 

Actually, no. Not sure what you mean. Smiley Considering everyone is consolidating to VM Systems, I think a VM is more real world like than not.

1) hosting sites are leveraging hardware costs by doing VMs
2) companies are doing the same in rented data centers by buying blades and moving to vms. Or buying pizza box servers and installing VMS

Cloud? Yep...

I'm reading the latest edition of Hacking Exposed: Web Applications (3rd edition), and it talks about people using VMs too. My examples I listed above though were from personal experience.

1) VM's take away the ability to allow you to hack wireless.
2) VM's there are no routers or switches to go through.
3) Its a Fake network.

Yes everyone is going VM's but in your fake VM lab you don't have what I have stated above which are huge parts of businesses.

If you look at me have a laptop that can hold alot but no switch's, router's, extra so having something like that available to practice I feel is more real word.  Does this make more sense when I say you know what I mean?

But now you're going beyond the scope of what a "virtual machine" is/does.  It's called a "virtual machine," not a "virtual network."  That's not to say though that you can't create a "virtual network" on a single machine though.  I ran across a blog post not too long ago where a guy used pfSense as a router between two separate virtual networks, all hosted on a single laptop.  While it's not Cisco IOS firmware, etc in your virtual network, you do have the ability to mess with firewall rules, routes, etc all on a single machine using a virtual network.

As for wireless, I haven't tried to mess with that using only one machine.  I personally use a laptop hosting a BackTrack VM with an Alfa wireless card connected as my attack machine, a WRT54GL for my WAP, and my phone or iPod as the client (which probably isn't more than what any other infosec pro/hobbyist/enthusiast already has).  I do wonder though if I might be able to use the built-in wireless card/host OS as the client...then it'd all be contained on one laptop, aside from the WAP.  Gonna have to try that soon.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 07:36:14 PM by lorddicranius » Logged

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El33tsamurai
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« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2011, 07:21:14 PM »

But the subject at hand here had to do with a at home lab but this is going no where I am sorry should of been more specific.
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lorddicranius
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« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2011, 07:45:05 PM »

True, but was regarding a home lab for Hacking Dojo and/or the PWB course.  I know VM's work fine for Hacking Dojo and from what I've heard, you aren't hacking switches/routers in PWB, just other virtual machines (hosted by Offensive Security).

Just making sure we're all on the same page Smiley
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El33tsamurai
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« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2011, 07:50:55 PM »

Ok, from the diagrams I saw online there was some sort of firewall that you had to get through I just assumed it was some sort of router.
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tturner
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« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2011, 09:28:32 AM »


1) VM's take away the ability to allow you to hack wireless.
2) VM's there are no routers or switches to go through.
3) Its a Fake network.

Yes everyone is going VM's but in your fake VM lab you don't have what I have stated above which are huge parts of businesses.

If you look at me have a laptop that can hold alot but no switch's, router's, extra so having something like that available to practice I feel is more real word.  Does this make more sense when I say you know what I mean?

1 - VMs allow direct access to USB attached devices, including USB wireless adapters. I can hack wireless all day from within a VM.

2 - take a look at GNS3, my virtual lab includes routers running Cisco IOS, switch modules on those routers and also the generic switches that come with GNS3. I have also recently connected my virtual environment to some real world physical switches and it works flawlessly.

3 - Why is it fake? What determines real or not? I'm still sending and receiving packets. It really depends on how you configure your environment. I can include physical devices if I wish to, or keep it isolated or anything in between. It's the flexibility with the click of a button that is so powerful. The main downside is that the VM environment is not natively identical to your real world environment, but if it gets you 95% of the way (or closer) there for 5% of the cost then that's a no-brainer to me. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

That being said, there ARE instances where running in a VM can cause problems, like for VM aware malware that changes characteristics based on whether it's running in a VM or not. This is usually to counter RE tactics. Snapshots are godly!  Grin
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El33tsamurai
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« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2011, 10:33:16 AM »


1) VM's take away the ability to allow you to hack wireless.
2) VM's there are no routers or switches to go through.
3) Its a Fake network.

Yes everyone is going VM's but in your fake VM lab you don't have what I have stated above which are huge parts of businesses.

If you look at me have a laptop that can hold alot but no switch's, router's, extra so having something like that available to practice I feel is more real word.  Does this make more sense when I say you know what I mean?

1 - VMs allow direct access to USB attached devices, including USB wireless adapters. I can hack wireless all day from within a VM.

2 - take a look at GNS3, my virtual lab includes routers running Cisco IOS, switch modules on those routers and also the generic switches that come with GNS3. I have also recently connected my virtual environment to some real world physical switches and it works flawlessly.

3 - Why is it fake? What determines real or not? I'm still sending and receiving packets. It really depends on how you configure your environment. I can include physical devices if I wish to, or keep it isolated or anything in between. It's the flexibility with the click of a button that is so powerful. The main downside is that the VM environment is not natively identical to your real world environment, but if it gets you 95% of the way (or closer) there for 5% of the cost then that's a no-brainer to me. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

That being said, there ARE instances where running in a VM can cause problems, like for VM aware malware that changes characteristics based on whether it's running in a VM or not. This is usually to counter RE tactics. Snapshots are godly!  Grin

In the VM it does not show up as a wireless device it comes through the host machine and it shows up as a Ethernet card not wireless device.

So with GNS3 you are able to use your vms in the environment as well?  This looks cool I have been using Packet Tracer to practice for my Cisco certs.

Yeah I agree on point three but it was designed by you making a hacking challenge 100% easier because you know all the configs of all the devices this is the major draw back here.

I agree snap shots are amazing. 
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cd1zz
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« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2011, 10:47:48 AM »

El33tsamurai

That is why you should do OSCP! Because you don't know any of that!
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lorddicranius
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« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2011, 11:14:08 AM »

In the VM it does not show up as a wireless device it comes through the host machine and it shows up as a Ethernet card not wireless device.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.  My Alfa USB wireless device shows up as wlan0 on a BackTrack VM.  I can then see all the wireless stats via "iwconfig" also.
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chrisj
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« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2011, 12:30:20 PM »

It's not easy, but you can set up wireless to the VM. It's how you pass the device to it. With the Alfa cards, you can pass it as a usb device.

Anyway... The VMs have the following options. Host only (you have to be on the VM Server), natted, bridged. Most of mine are bridged.

The point of a VM lab over a hardware lab is that you can rebuild faster, and not be limited by 1 box to 1 system.

Example my full lab:
WRT54GL
2 Alfa wireless cards (USB)
3 Pentium 3 desktop. Each one running a different version of linux
1 Laptop running 5 Virtual guests in bridged mode (base is debian, vms are: Backtrack, Fedora, 2 WinXP, Ubuntu)
1 triple boot netbook (win7, ubuntu, backtrack)
3 cisco routers
3 cisco swtiches

I use the laptop and netbook as day to day boxes, and want a new desktop to run the VMs on, as well as add to being a day to day box at home.
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« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2011, 12:34:38 PM »

Sounds like El33tsamurai has the USB card on the host and not mounted directly to the VM. I just took the OSWP training using a virtual image and an Alpha card. It shows up (when mounted directly to the VM) as wlan0.

Also, definitely look into GNS3. A seriously awesome tool.
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El33tsamurai
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« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2011, 05:07:51 PM »

El33tsamurai

That is why you should do OSCP! Because you don't know any of that!

Good call I am putting money together to get working on this.
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El33tsamurai
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« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2011, 05:08:45 PM »

In the VM it does not show up as a wireless device it comes through the host machine and it shows up as a Ethernet card not wireless device.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.  My Alfa USB wireless device shows up as wlan0 on a BackTrack VM.  I can then see all the wireless stats via "iwconfig" also.

See my wireless does not.
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El33tsamurai
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« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2011, 05:11:00 PM »

Sounds like El33tsamurai has the USB card on the host and not mounted directly to the VM. I just took the OSWP training using a virtual image and an Alpha card. It shows up (when mounted directly to the VM) as wlan0.

Also, definitely look into GNS3. A seriously awesome tool.

I have added and will use it thanks alot.
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