Image
 
linkedin_logo.png rss_logo.jpg
twitter_logo.png youtube_logo.jpg
Latest Additions
 
EH-Net Login
Welcome Guest.






Lost Password?
No account yet? Register
Who's Online
We have 38 guests and 1 member online
 
Advertisement

You are here: Home arrow Ethical Hacking Discussions and Related Certificationsarrow Web Applicationsarrow Black box testing on a website
EH-Net
May 23, 2013, 04:38:37 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Go back to The Ethical Hacker Network Online Magazine Home Page
 
   Home   Help Calendar Login Register  
Poll
Question: Black box testing
without hacking tools - 1 (100%)
using snort - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 1

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Black box testing on a website  (Read 24395 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
jamesb7555
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2


View Profile
« on: April 02, 2011, 08:43:27 AM »

Can anyone help me how to perform black box testing for a website.

Need urgent help!!!!!!!

Thanks in advance
James.b
Logged
xXxKrisxXx
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 512



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2011, 11:46:40 AM »

hey jamesb7555!

Chances of you asking that question makes the chances of you being hired for that position slim. This would make us wonder if you had permission at all to go about performing this test. We don't condone illegal activity here, welcome to the EthicalHacker Network.

-Kris
Logged

eCPPT, GCIH, OSCP, OSWP
AndyB
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 100



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2011, 03:13:13 PM »

If someone can point me in the right direction of some good reading materials, i'd be interested in finding out how to black and white box a website. 

I'd like to find out if there are any vunerabilities in a website I admin as i'm not to happy with the patching and updates as well as the software versions that the host is running.
Logged

Net+ Sec+ More to come
chrisj
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1163


View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2011, 05:25:23 PM »

If someone can point me in the right direction of some good reading materials, i'd be interested in finding out how to black and white box a website. 

I'd like to find out if there are any vunerabilities in a website I admin as i'm not to happy with the patching and updates as well as the software versions that the host is running.

Hacking for Dummies. I'm not kidding either. The latest edition will explain them enough to understand what they are.

However for your patches and what not, go with something like Nessus. However, it depends on the rules that the hosting provider allows, and you'll probably still want to let them know a head of time, and get a get out of jail free card.
Logged

OSWP, Sec+
chrisj
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1163


View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2011, 05:32:28 PM »


Chances of you asking that question makes the chances of you being hired for that position slim.

Kris, could have been worse, he could have asked how to do a Black HAT pentest instead. Director said he had contracts for a WHITE HAT and a BLACK HAT pen-test on his desk.

Sadder thing is, that's actually what the contract said.

Worst than that, I had t break it to him that we wouldn't past a Vulnerability test, let alone a full on pen test. Actually had a policy in place to not upgrade the boxes there.
Logged

OSWP, Sec+
UNIX
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1235


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2011, 02:27:55 AM »

If someone can point me in the right direction of some good reading materials, i'd be interested in finding out how to black and white box a website. 

I'd like to find out if there are any vunerabilities in a website I admin as i'm not to happy with the patching and updates as well as the software versions that the host is running.

The Web Application Hacker's Handbook gives a gentle introduction into the topic.
Logged
BillV
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1892


View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2011, 10:09:08 AM »

Check the OWASP Testing Guide
Logged
AndyB
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 100



View Profile
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2011, 01:51:23 PM »

However for your patches and what not, go with something like Nessus. However, it depends on the rules that the hosting provider allows, and you'll probably still want to let them know a head of time, and get a get out of jail free card.

The site has been hacked 3 times in 4 years (they changed the sites default language to swedish once) and I know from the logs that it's not the php app that we're using or that they brute forced the passwords (26 character pass-phrase) but the SQL on the machine was a much older version and not patched fully.

Have had quite a disussion with their tech and sales guys about this and was thinking about doing a discreete white & black test to give me some ammo to light a fire up their asses
Logged

Net+ Sec+ More to come
H1t M0nk3y
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 864



View Profile
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2011, 06:35:56 AM »

Quote
Have had quite a disussion with their tech and sales guys about this and was thinking about doing a discreete white & black test to give me some ammo to light a fire up their asses

BTW AndyB, you know that by doing a "discreete" pentest on a web site, even on a Dev box, you must have a written permission?

Don't get yourself into trouble!!!  Wink
Logged

OSCP, GPEN, GWAPT, GSEC, CEH, CISSP
arkansasclp
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2


"It should work....."


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2011, 02:03:59 PM »

I would agree with H1t M0nk3y. Even performing a pentest against a resource that is owned by the company you work for, does not give you permission to perform the test. I have seen helpdesk techs get into hot water for "pentesting" the company web server.
Logged

MCSA / MCSE / CLA / CLP / CCNA / CCDA / CEH / SECURITY+
jamesb7555
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2011, 12:38:54 PM »

Thanks to one and all who replies.I am doing my dessertation as a part of that i need to assess a fake website.for that i have to know the steps for black box testing.
Logged
AndyB
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 100



View Profile
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2011, 05:04:17 PM »

I've got the verbal go-ahead and should have the written go-ahead in my inbox when I get back into work after my weeks leave.

Got some books on the way and, if this weather holds up, will spend the week in the back garden with a cold drink or 3 and do some serious reading. 

Work out a plan of attack and see just what I can do.  Will be interesting to have the website/server control console up, watching the logs realtime on one machine whilst I probe from another!
Logged

Net+ Sec+ More to come
treasur3
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5


I stay null :)


View Profile WWW
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2011, 02:26:01 PM »

I don't know what did u ment by directions . but 1st of all you need to have the legal permission from the target environment. better make it written. if your question is how to perform a pentest . its the normal process of a pentest , everyone have their own methods
Logged

Treasure's Security Blog
http://treasuresec.com
Follow me on Twitter
http://twitter.com/treasure_sec
sil
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 549



View Profile WWW
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2011, 07:31:59 AM »

Without getting into a Wikipedia like entry here, let's take a look at what goes on with white-listing.

You have a machine with an application - say notepad. You create an entry called acc_note which when notepad is called, is validated against a list, then allowed to run. How is this application being validated?

Unless there are strong checksums against that application, nothing stops me - as an attacker - from binding rogue calls to that application, to which when run, will allow me to run code even more-so now, because that application was deemed trusted. You also need to understand that in order to whitelist, you will likely need to whitelist includables (DLLs. *.so's and so on to make it truly effective.) Any updates, you will need to go back through the whole process. See the dilemma here?

This is not to say that whitelisting is a failure however, this is to point out the notion that simply by whitelisting all is well. In an enterprise environment, maintaining a list of what is legitimate and what is not can be cumbersome. This is because most operating systems issue updates which would change any checksummed based systems. Administrators tasked with maintaning these systems will likely learn to overlook re-calculating checksums. Most of this overlooking can come directly from management in their effort to get things done "right now."

You can read more from two heavyweights (Ranum and Schneier) on this subject here:
http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/magazineContent/Schneier-Ranum-Face-Off-on-whitelisting-and-blacklisting

A better approach at whitelisting boils down to whitelisting CONNECTIVITY. This is the MOST CRUCIAL, misunderstood and overlooked element here. E.g., you have a machine say a DB. Its role is to take data stored INSIDE the environment and populate it elsewhere. It makes much more sense to whitelist all the machines INSIDE the the local network and block the others. Same rings true across the board. Even in an outbreak, the machine would be programmed to talk to no one else BUT trusted sources. This can be accomplished on the local machine as well as egress points to ensure there would be no data leaks.

This is where people fail miserably. In their approach, not to forget the fact that too many people have been following the words of others for so long when the initial design was wrong to begin with. E.g.: "Input validation versus Output Validation" Can you seriously control what people try to input? If you think you can, you're mistaken. You may be able to control what your machine processes, but it won't stop anyone from attempting to input it will it? You will beat yourself to a bloody pulp trying to concoct massive amounts of counters however, you CAN control what your machine puts OUT every single time. YOU and only YOU know what your machine is supposed to distribute. This is ALWAYS under your control and the applicable rules ARE under your control. It's all in the approach and understanding.

E.g., statistically, a DB needs to return a total of 10 variable with a sum of say 10k to render a query complete (to show someone their account summary). You can easily create a counter that says: "Look machine, at no point in time should you ever go over this maximum amount of variables. 10 fields for a sum of 10k" This is a much stronger rule since your machine would not OUTPUT an error message or website with more than that. Data leakage is minimized to 10 variables at 10k. Versus trying to create voodoo rules that won't work because you won't be able to keep up with millions of attackers consistently trying.
Logged

jacobadam
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2011, 01:57:18 AM »

Specific knowledge of the application's code/internal structure and programming knowledge in general is not required. Test cases are built around specifications and requirements, i.e., what the application is supposed to do. It uses external descriptions of the software, including specifications, requirements, and design to derive test cases. These tests can be functional or non-functional, though usually functional. The test designer selects valid and invalid inputs and determines the correct output. There is no knowledge of the test object's internal structure.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
Joomla Bridge by JoomlaHacks.com
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.09 seconds with 25 queries.
 
Exclusive Deal

sansfire13_245x90_cw90.jpg
SANSFIRE 2013
June 15 - 22

5% Off w/ Code: EHN_5

SANS Deals 4 EH-Netters
5% OFF Any SANS Course in Any Format!
Coupon Code: EHN_5 Including SANS Rocky Mountain 2013 & SANS Boston 2013
Polls
Compared to this year, 2013 will be:
 
Recent Forum Topics
EH-Net News Feeds
Latest Additions
 
         
Advertisement

© 2013 The Ethical Hacker Network
Joomla! is Free Software released under the GNU/GPL License.