Image
 
linkedin_logo.png rss_logo.jpg
twitter_logo.png youtube_logo.jpg
Latest Additions
 
EH-Net Login
Welcome Guest.






Lost Password?
No account yet? Register
Who's Online
We have 36 guests and 1 member online
 
Advertisement

You are here: Home arrow Ethical Hacking Discussions and Related Certificationsarrow Network Pen Testingarrow CEH - Certified Ethical Hackerarrow Ethical Hacking Compared to Penetration Testing?
EH-Net
May 21, 2013, 01:55:30 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Go back to The Ethical Hacker Network Online Magazine Home Page
 
   Home   Help Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Ethical Hacking Compared to Penetration Testing?  (Read 10414 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
angila
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1


View Profile
« on: December 19, 2010, 05:59:17 AM »

I just began studying for the CEH v5 and finished reading module 1 of the official courseware. As I was doing the exercises at the end of the module, I stumbled upon a question where I had to pause and think for minute. The question that I was referring is question #5: What are the similarities and differences between Ethical Hacking and Penetration Testing? I know that Vulnerability assessment and Pentesting are use interchangeably, however they have their differences. Vulnerability assessment is when you test a target for known vulnerabilities whereas Penetration Testing is use to conduct the actual exploitation based on the information obtained from the former test. But what is Ethical Hacking when compared to Penetration testing? The following is the information I found so far:
Logged

angila
BillV
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1892


View Profile WWW
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2010, 07:43:56 AM »

It's just a bad question and won't be on the test. It would take your imagination and some creativity to come up with an answer to it as there's really no technical difference, it all be in how you want to define the terms.

What are you using to study? I ask because you mention v5 but I don't think the v5 exam is available any longer. The v6 courseware has been out for a while and they're working on getting the v7 release out.
Logged
don
Editor-In-Chief
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4165


Editor-In-Chief


View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2010, 04:40:27 PM »

Many define these in different ways, but let me share my thoughts.

1. Vulnerability Assessment and Pen Testing should NOT be used interchangeably. VA finds where you might be vulnerable like with password policies or unpatched services. Pen Testing is actually hitting those vulns.

2. I view Ethical Hacking as a general term for a wide range of topics that include network pen testing, web app pen testing, forensics, wireless, social engineering, etc. All are forms of hacking and we want to make sure that all of them are done with permission and in an ethical manner.

What do you EH-Netters think? Agree? Disagree?

Hope this helps,
Don
Logged

CISSP, MCSE, CSTA, Security+ SME
H1t M0nk3y
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 864



View Profile
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2010, 08:02:25 AM »

I agree with Don, "Penetration Testing" is a subset of "Ethical Hacking".

You have hardware hacking, people hacking (social engineering), software hacking (exploit development), web application hacking (web app pen test), network and server hacking (pen test), wireless hacking, etc.

Hacking in general could be legal (ethical) or illegal.

To me, in a nutshell, ethical means that all the parties involved are fully aware of the hack being performed. To me "parties" include owners of the network, servers, application and data. This doesn't mean you warn Microsoft before pen testing a Windows environment, but make sure the owner or the person responsible of this environment understand what you will be doing. This means written permission and all that comes with it (Non disclosure agreement, methodology, rules of engagement, etc).

Alternatively, you work in your own lab.

Just about everything else is illegal, hence not ethical.

Personally, I don't get any pride or glory in hacking my neighbour's wireless access point. But downloading a vulnerable VM image and hack my way into it in my lab is very rewarding (and much, much harder!). The same goes from pen testing a web application and downloading the entire database. It is legal, your client is happy and you are happy. In addition, you can add it to your resume!
Logged

OSCP, GPEN, GWAPT, GSEC, CEH, CISSP
tturner
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 432


View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2010, 08:55:30 AM »

In my opinion ethical hacking is exploiting the system in an ethical way whereas penetration testing takes it a step farther and uses the output from ethical hacking and creates a useful report for the target organization. This process includes all the piece parts of a quality pentest report and real value add for the business by identifying where the verified vulnerabilities create risk scenarios for the business and why and from what vectors as well as the real world impact of a threat exploiting that vulnerability.

Ethical hacking is a subset of penetration testing and does not provide that level of value to business by itself but is more about achieving the level of understanding of the target asset/process necessary to deliver quality pentest results. I also don't feel that ethical hacking includes the security analysis skills required to draw the necessary conclusions outside the very narrow scope of that target system being exploited that a good penetration tester will from good critical security thinking processes. I'd be interested in how others define these as I see many people use these terms interchangeably but I just don't agree that they are the same.
Logged

Certifications:
CISSP, CISA, GPEN, GWAPT, GAWN, GCIA, GCIH, GSEC, OPSE, CSWAE, CSTP, VCP

WIP: OSWP, GSSP-JAVA, GXPN

Udacity on hold, again. I suck.

http://sentinel24.com/blog  @tonylturner http://bsidesorlando.org
don
Editor-In-Chief
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4165


Editor-In-Chief


View Profile WWW
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2010, 03:13:07 PM »

Hey tturner,

If someone describes themself as a hacker or says that they hack things, we would most likely ask for more info... is it hardware hacking, computer hacking, human hacking, etc.

Most of us would agree that 'hacking' is more than just exploiting a system. Therefore, 'ethical hacking' is much more than just exploiting a system with permission.

So I think my definition would fit that thought process better than yours.

But I do love a good debate. ;-)

What r your thoughts,
Don
Logged

CISSP, MCSE, CSTA, Security+ SME
sil
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 549



View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2010, 03:29:20 PM »

If someone describes themself as a hacker or says that they hack things, we would most likely ask for more info

I try to stay away from butchers. I'm usually scared of people with blades hacking away at slabs of meat
Logged

maxpeck
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 21



View Profile
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2011, 05:54:47 PM »

...Its the people hacking behind me that make me nervous. I don't want to hear 'cough, cough' and then feel 'splat' on the back of my head.  Sad
With all the condo commandos that live around me its always a possibility...

MP
 
Logged

Max
tturner
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 432


View Profile WWW
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2011, 06:20:45 AM »

Hey tturner,

If someone describes themself as a hacker or says that they hack things, we would most likely ask for more info... is it hardware hacking, computer hacking, human hacking, etc.

Most of us would agree that 'hacking' is more than just exploiting a system. Therefore, 'ethical hacking' is much more than just exploiting a system with permission.

So I think my definition would fit that thought process better than yours.


I have always defined hacking as "An interaction with something with the intent to make it do something it was not designed or intended for" Hacking is just that interaction point and any activities that support those activities. That includes recon, scanning, etc. Writing up a report that correlates technology to business risk is not typically associated with hacking and is only associated with ethical hacking because EC-Council made a cert and called it that. This is one of my pet peeves in security, not just this but all the ways in which we completely confuse security jargon because of vendors incorrectly marketing products. Take privacy and confidentiality for instance. How many security professionals really know the difference? There is one.

Penetration testing is supported by ethical hacking activities but it is not the same thing.
Logged

Certifications:
CISSP, CISA, GPEN, GWAPT, GAWN, GCIA, GCIH, GSEC, OPSE, CSWAE, CSTP, VCP

WIP: OSWP, GSSP-JAVA, GXPN

Udacity on hold, again. I suck.

http://sentinel24.com/blog  @tonylturner http://bsidesorlando.org
don
Editor-In-Chief
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4165


Editor-In-Chief


View Profile WWW
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2011, 01:02:00 PM »

I agree with you and the marketing of CEH (Certified Ethical Hacker). But I disagree completely with your time frame. IBM and many others were using the term ethical hacking long before EC-Council used the term in the name of their cert. I like to cite things, so here you go.

In a paper written by IBMer Charles C. Palmer in 2001, he states:

"In the case of computer security, these “tiger teams” or “ethical hackers”
(3) would employ the same tools and techniques as the intruders, but they would neither damage the target systems nor steal information."

The 3 in that statement is the footnote which reads:

"The first use of the term “ethical hackers” appears to have been in an interview with John Patrick of IBM by Gary Anthens that appeared in a June 1995 issue of ComputerWorld."

Don
« Last Edit: January 15, 2011, 01:12:06 PM by don » Logged

CISSP, MCSE, CSTA, Security+ SME
tturner
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 432


View Profile WWW
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2011, 04:48:59 PM »

I did not mean to state that EC-Council created the term, simply that todays definition of what it means stems largely from their marketing efforts. The article you posted was a good read, thanks for the link Don. It did mention that these ethical hackers reported on vulnerabilities and developed remediation plans, but it is my stipulation that a good penetration tester goes a step farther and correlates the verified vulnerabilities to business risk. Without a compelling reason to resolve the vulnerability, there is little incentive to do so. You have to show the impact.

There is no authority on this subject currently that can clearly define these terms for us. That's just my personal definition. I'm fine if you disagree but that doesn't change my opinion. Smiley I will contend that I usually don't include a remediation plan within my definition of ethical hacker either, but IBM clearly did.
Logged

Certifications:
CISSP, CISA, GPEN, GWAPT, GAWN, GCIA, GCIH, GSEC, OPSE, CSWAE, CSTP, VCP

WIP: OSWP, GSSP-JAVA, GXPN

Udacity on hold, again. I suck.

http://sentinel24.com/blog  @tonylturner http://bsidesorlando.org
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
Joomla Bridge by JoomlaHacks.com
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.066 seconds with 24 queries.
 
Exclusive Deal

sansfire13_245x90_cw90.jpg
SANSFIRE 2013
June 15 - 22

5% Off w/ Code: EHN_5

SANS Deals 4 EH-Netters
5% OFF Any SANS Course in Any Format!
Coupon Code: EHN_5 Including SANS Rocky Mountain 2013 & SANS Boston 2013
Polls
Compared to this year, 2013 will be:
 
Recent Forum Topics
EH-Net News Feeds
Latest Additions
 
         
Advertisement

© 2013 The Ethical Hacker Network
Joomla! is Free Software released under the GNU/GPL License.