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You are here: Home arrow Ethical Hacking Discussions and Related Certificationsarrow Otherarrow I'm thinking about starting an amateur cybercrime prevention team.
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May 23, 2013, 08:03:37 PM *
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Author Topic: I'm thinking about starting an amateur cybercrime prevention team.  (Read 12898 times)
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Ketchup
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« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2010, 01:53:01 PM »

TH2010,

Bill is a well respected member of this organization.  He has helped countless newbies and experienced information security professionals over the years.   He gave you solid advice.   

You have a decent idea on your hands, but that's not enough, as was proven in the dot com bust.   You need to have a good project plan, and yes a business plan as well.   Even if your project is non-profit, it will still be a business.   It will cost money.   Too many good ideas fail because they get executed very poorly. 
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« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2010, 02:54:41 PM »

TH2010...

I can understand how people's comments can sometimes be misconstrued and taken negatively.  BillV was trying to point you in a very reasonable direction.  Please understand his motives, and continue the discussion, if you truly have interest in the areas you brought up.

We're not here to slam you, etc.  Remember, you did ask for advice and thoughts, and BillV's were exactly that.
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« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2010, 01:15:32 AM »

Geez, give the guy a break.  Business plan?  All he/she needs is curiosity and passion.  The rest will follow.  GL TH
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« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2010, 07:57:05 AM »

Geez, give the guy a break.  Business plan?  All he/she needs is curiosity and passion.  The rest will follow.  GL TH
It was a legitimate question/suggestion/piece of advice.  If this person wants others to join some sort of venture then a business plan is paramount.

Welcome to the forums by the way!
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BillV
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« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2010, 08:16:19 AM »

Geez, give the guy a break.  Business plan?  All he/she needs is curiosity and passion.  The rest will follow.  GL TH

I'd say that the 700K+ hits for: "importance of a business plan" as opposed to the 8 hits for "business plan not needed" or 9 hits for "business plan unnecessary" on Google pretty much sums it up.

What you, and the OP, missed is that the words business plan were placed in quotes for a reason. I wasn't indicating he needed an official, all-out legitimate business plan on which to base his venture. I was simply indicating that his post (please re-read the first one) did not provide any relevant details to interest anyone in joining. There was no plan presented and definitely not enough information. Then it was emphasized as a project. Well, a project has to have goals and a way of getting to them. It'd be beneficial to look up the definition of a project or research project management in this case.

Regardless, I clearly stated there was no plan and not enough information presented for anyone to base a decision on whether to help with his project. I asked for clarification on several topics, to which he stated he'd answer any questions, yet he didn't really provide any sort of response.

The topic is pretty much dead at this point and no real point to discuss it further unless the OP decides to return with more information.
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« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2010, 08:46:48 PM »

I was almost interested when I saw the subject line.  I haven't been around all that much, but I have run other types of forums and when you are a newbie on the forum, you really need to watch how you behave.  Seems the BillV offered his recommendations.  You (OP) could have simply noted and watched the forum for other suggestions. 

Frankly it sounds like you want to start a cyber-vigilante group.  My concern with this would be what happens when you happen across a would be scammer site that may be watched by a legitimate group and you can end up getting into a sticky situation. 

Or do you want to start a hacker-space?  Like others have said there are probably a number of groups doing similar things.  Why reinvent the wheel?  As for the "business plan"  well it doesn't hurt.  Every club out there has a mission that is stated.  This allows the group to keep focused and know the direction they want to go.  It also allows them to build on that mission and develop more complex goals.

Besides there is a big enough group here, I'm sure someone has something going on that they wouldn't mind some additional assistance.
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« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2010, 04:30:12 AM »

hmm...not sure if i want to get into this, but i'd like to give some advice on how to put this idea into further development, not about the idea in general.

first of all, if you want this to become succesfull you have to put something in writing. this can be (here comes the dangerous word) a businessplan, or just a mission/vision that you want to pursue. either way YOU are the one that will have to invest time/money first before it will accomplish anything. Nothing comes just like that. once you get this clear you can start by investing money (if needed). you can get help any time, even by free will!

The next step if you want to go further with this idea i think it will be wisely to have someone who knows the law (prefferably very well). because this is more on the line then pentesting, you better have a good lawyer and a solid knowledge of the law yourself, before attempting to approach the line.

My personal opinion is that it is hard to get such a project rolling, cause of the nature of it. i support it fully because there is too much illegal stuff out there that cant be anything done about, but again, my vision on this is that we have to start at the top (by modify the law to make it more transparent about computer crime) and then start by cleaning up the mess...

last but not least i support your entheusiastic view and wish you all the best if you want to proceed with this idea and turn it into a running project.
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« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2010, 11:30:47 AM »

I have read the post and its comments with much interest.

BillV is correct you need a blueprint before embarking on a 'project' involving more than one person. It is the foundation of any good 'team' and that is what was intended… or am I missing the fact that this was a post to propose a team of sorts? How else would you get everyone on the same page and facing the same direction so to speak? The old saying, 'Failing to plan is planning to fail' rings true and I have personally seen it in many projects IT and other that I have been involved in.

I commend the OP on his passion for the subject but believe he should take heed of some good advice and not take comments so personally. It was a good idea... so let’s hear your plan? I doubt anyone wanted a dissertation and presentation just some bullet points of what your goals, objectives and strategy was and how you saw this coming together.
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« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2010, 12:41:30 AM »

last one.... sham.
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« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2010, 01:23:15 PM »

I thought I would float the idea, see if anyone was interested. This wouldn't be anything special, just a few people working together to remove some of the cyber threats that are out there.

We would identify, investigate and attempt to take it offline.

I look forward to hearing people’s opinions.

And what do you think will happen when you interfere with an ongoing criminal investigation?

This idea has been floated around from time to time and is nothing new. There have been many individuals who've had nice theories about eliminating threats but are too often blinded to see bigger pictures. For instance... You stumble upon say a site filled with despicable child porn, your initial instincts after wanting to physically hurt the owners is to remove the site... Do you remove it? How? Hack into it? DoS it? By hacking into the site, you're no better than any other malicious hacker period. DoS'ing? Same.

Not only are you no better, but you could be setting yourself up for tampering with an investigation by a law enforcement agency. You don't and can't know whether or not the site is under surveillance. You can't and won't know - unless they arrest you - that you potentially crippled the work of investigators who may have been close to legally arresting a website owner/operator and or closing down a website.

Take a step away from the technological aspects of this for a moment... Place this into another situation: "Hi, I've seen many people get mugged on the street and I was wondering if someone would like to join my group of vigilantes. We decided that we are the judge jury and executioner. Wanna join?

Forget about business plans as there would be little viability in it. There may be a personal moral redemptional reward for you, but at the end of the day you're looking for trouble on both sides of the law. To repeat, you could be jeopardizing an investigation and secondly, if you think some of these spammers and kiddie porn peddlers are Jack-in-the-Box do-nothing'ers, don't think for a minute that some organized crime boss making millions off of spam, etc., won't stop to harm you if found. They will NOT hesitate to pay someone to off you for peanuts.

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