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You are here: Home arrow Forum arrow Ethical Hacking Discussions and Related Certificationsarrow General Certificationarrow InfoSec Institute's online Advanced hacking/Reverse Eng training?
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Author Topic: InfoSec Institute's online Advanced hacking/Reverse Eng training?  (Read 6738 times)
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quan991
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« on: May 25, 2009, 02:48:43 PM »

I was wondering if anyone has an honest review or opinion of Infosec Institute's online-training.
Specifically there online/self-study "Reverse Engineering" & "Advanced Ethical hacking".

I've heard there live training classes are good but so far haven't been able to find much about the Online versions other than a couple mixed-opinions.
Is it worth the money or not?

What I'm looking for is something that will help me get very proficient with hard-core reversing, analysis, decrypting/de-obfuscating executables & exploit development - my main focus is reversing using IDA-Pro and OllyDbg.

Unfortunately I can't travel so attending live training is out of reach for me.
I did consider attending Blackhat 09 training this July but it would cost way too much.
I'm doing this all on my own dime. So I have to make sure I get my money's worth I have a very limited budget (Less than 5K).

I do have experience both professional & hobbyist and am at about the intermediate level with Assembly & C, so I'm not shy of jumping into something that is not for beginners.
While I am familiar/experienced with malware analysis & reversing I feel I have a lot of gaps to fill and could use some hand holding.

Finding proven/professional online training for these topics has been difficult so far.

Other than Infosec Institute I have seen www.iitac.org (a.k.a. Cognitive Core?) which also offers IDA Pro / reversing courses. But I have not been able to find much on these guys & they seem to be overseas?

I'm not too hung up on certification as alot of these certs seem kind of bogus to me, though I won't mind getting a cert out of this if it's included. I'm more interested in real practical knowledge & skills.

Suggestions? Opinions?

Thanks!!!
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former33t
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« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2009, 07:29:51 PM »

I haven't had a chance to write a full review (although I intend to) on the Infosec Reverse Engineering course.  When I do, I'll be sure to post a link here.

I had a chance to take an on-site offering of the course two weeks ago.  I am well versed in assembly and (linux) programming and really needed the course to polish my skills in reverse engineering malware.

The lab manual was so bad that the site rep who contracted the training called Infosec and told them they had to fix it by the second on site offering of the course or we were canceling.  He made sure they agreed that those of us in the first offering would get a copy of the updated manual.

I'd say use them at your own risk.  I don't think this is typical of Infosec.  The POC who brought them in is a CEPT, VERY knowledgeable and had nothing but good things to say about Infosec prior to this course.  Honestly, the self study work I did with the tools in the "Malware Forensics" book did me more good than this class.

For those considering an onsite course offering, get something in writing about the quality of the hardware they are bringing.  They brought laptops with a whopping 1G of ram.  subtract from that video memory and you'll see where this is going.  Because you doing malware, everything has to run in a VM.  You can imaging the speed of IDA (relative memory hog) trying to run on < 1G for host and guest OS.  The exercise where you work with an IRC bot is horrible since now you have to run an IRC server on your host to see the full functionality of the malware.

If you find something good for not a lot of $$, please post it here.  I'm still looking.  If I'd paid my own money for this, I'd be livid.  Not to take anything away from the instructor (who was a contractor for Infosec and REALLY knew his stuff), but the course material was full of errors and worse, omissions.  I can't imaging you'd get anything different from them in an online offering.

The course content is also largely a blow by blow of the "Reversing" book (some examples are verbatim).  Thanks to Infosec, I now own two copies of this book (which isn't bad, but isn't great).  If you don't own one, PM me I'll sell you a copy, cheap.
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quan991
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« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2009, 12:48:35 PM »

Thanks for the feedback.
I'm sort of getting the feeling I should shy away from these guys for now.
The lack of (positive) reviews tells me the courses appear to still be in there infancy or just aren't put together that well (at least from a self-study perspective).
That or people just aren't taking them. Plus from the only 2 or 3 reviews I read it looks like the books/materials are not all that unique.
For instance, the books Reversing, Shellcoders Hbook, Art of Exploitation, etc... are readily available (I already read alot of this on my own).

Please correct me if I'm wrong & have positive feedback about the courses.
I wanted it to be good so I could end my search for training, but as it stands looks like I'm going to have to wait for some live training courses to come my way (ca / west coast) and come down in price.

I'm using my own funds so I can't afford to be a guinea pig & need to maximize my investment.
As I mentioned the only other "Reversing" specific course I have seen so far is from iitac.org, but I've not seen one single review or comment on these guys. It appears they are the same people who offer Damn Vulnerable Linux?

Well if the reversing malware just isn't happening I may have to go at it alone some more and maybe shift the training investment towards Advanced Hacking/Exploit Development.

At this stage I'm about ready to give up on the online/self-study route & just bite the bullet by driving to the next live training camp I can find!

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Jhaddix
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« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2009, 02:38:29 PM »

Why not try the ondemand or selfstudy versions of:


SANS SEC610     Reverse-Engineering Malware: Malware Analysis Tools and Techniques


SANS SEC709     Developing Exploits for Penetration Testers and Security Researchers

Or this years BlacKhat on-site training: Exploit and Metasploit Module Development

and for kicks check out NY Poly’s ISIS Penetration Testing and Vulnerability Analysis course material (videos included) by Dan Guido:

http://cryptocity.net/pentest
http://cryptocity.net/archive/source09/

If some of the reversing and exploit dev stuff is down just email him he's a nice guy =)








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Andrew Waite
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« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2009, 02:56:23 PM »

Jhaddix,

thanks for the links, at first glance the stuff from Dan Guido looks good. I'll have to make the time to look through it fully.
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NickFnord
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« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2009, 04:01:54 AM »

I've done the infosec reverse engineering course.  I did the online version and paid my own money for it.

If you see it as an entry level course, then I think it is fine, although the lab manual does leave a little bit to be desired.

I've spoken with the institute and they assure me they're revamping the course significantly as well as improving the exam to include a practical component, bringing it in-line with their other exams (such as the cept)

as it stands though, I'd have to second that buying the Reversing book is a far more economical method of learning reversing.  

I have noticed on their site that there is an advanced reversing course available, specifically looking at malware.  I don't know how that one fares compared to the current one.

edit:  I got the course for half-price as an introductory offer last year, and although it certainly isn't polished, they have been very receptive to feedback I've given. 
« Last Edit: May 28, 2009, 04:05:21 AM by NickFnord » Logged
m.febres
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« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2009, 08:50:11 AM »

I pass the CREA test some weeks ago and I can tell you that the level is basic. If you are a self-taught person, read some books like Reversing: Secrets of Reverse Engineering and it will be enough.
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« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2009, 08:05:44 AM »

Thank you very much Jhaddix for the links from Dan Guido, much appreciated. Only have watched through them shortly but they look like an excellent free resource. Smiley
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