Home
Calendar
Certifications
Columns
Features
Forum
Resources
Vitals
Latest Additions
Jan 2009 Free Giveaway Sponsor - Black Hat DC
Scooby Doo and the Crypto Caper - Answers and Winners
Daemon - A Contest Revealed
Nov 2008 Free Giveaway - Winners
Hacking: The Art of Exploitation 2nd Edition
Dec 2008 Free Giveaway Sponsor - SANS
Santa Claus is Hacking to Town
Plug-N-Play Network Hacking
Nov 2008 Free Giveaway Sponsor - CWNP
Daemon - A Contest Begins Now
It Happened One Friday - Answers and Winners
Daemon - A Contest
Scooby Doo and the Crypto Caper
MS Blue Hat Hackers Headline Chicago Security Con
The Pen Testing Perfect Storm Webcast Series with Skoudis, Wright, Johnson
EH-Net Login
Welcome Guest.
Username:
Password:
Remember me
Lost Password?
No account yet?
Register
Who's Online
We have 18 guests and 2 members online
EH-Net Donations
Enter Amount:
$
CAD
USD
GBP
AUD
JPY
EUR
Google Ads
EH-Net News Feeds
Latest Additions
Book Recommendations
You are here:
Home
Forum
Resources
Career Central
entry-level or intermediate
Ethical Hacker Community Forums
January 07, 2009, 09:05:19 PM
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
Did you miss your
activation email?
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
News
: ChicagoCon 2-Day Ethical Hacking Conference with MS Blue Hats Oct 31 - Nov 1. Tickets Only $100!
www.chicagocon.com/content/view/103/51/
Home
Help
Calendar
Login
Register
Ethical Hacker Community Forums
>
Resources
>
Career Central
(Moderator:
don
) >
entry-level or intermediate
Pages: [
1
]
Go Down
« previous
next »
Print
Author
Topic: entry-level or intermediate (Read 2359 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
unicityd
Newbie
Offline
Posts: 14
entry-level or intermediate
«
on:
September 04, 2008, 05:05:21 PM »
I'm planning to start applying for some security jobs soon and I'm hoping for a little advice. I have never had a full-time security job, but I have had security responsibilities and would (ideally) like to land an intermediate-level position.
Is this possible, or do I need to put in some time in an entry-level position first?
My justification for wanting to do this is that I think my technical skills are much more in line with an intermediate-level position.
I have 6 years of full-time experience in networking, programming, and IT management. My responsibilities have included managing an IDS and performing product security testing.
I'm Security+ certified and plan to pickup the C|EH soon. I've taken Foundstone's Ultimate Hacking: Expert course.
I've published several articles (in print) on buffer overflows and other security topics and have also contributed to several Wikipedia articles. I can write exploits and shellcode and can use advanced techniques to bypass StackGuard, PointGuard, no-exec, ProPolice, etc. I can also find and exploit other vulnerabilities such as as SQL injection and XSS. About eight years ago, I reported several vulnerabilities on Bugtraq. I spoke at Defcon around the same time.
I know TCP/IP really well and have spent hundreds of hours analzying traffic with tcpdump, Ethereal, Wireshark, and Snort. I've created a lot of custom traffic (for product security testing) using Hping2, Packit, Nmap, fragroute, and my own protocol fuzzers . One of my work projects required me to analyze and qualify signatures for Snort and the Cisco IDS. I documented dozens of the signatures in the Snort project.
I've been using Unix for 14 years and can comfortably manage BSD, Linux, and HP-UX. I have some Windows server experience (and a lot of desktop), but no Active Directory. I have experience with Cisco routers and switches, HP switches, and Foundry layer-4 devices. I'm comfortable with Unix firewalls but have no hands-on experience with commercial firewalls.
My knowledge comes mostly from personal projects and reading--I've read more than a thousand articles and conference/journal papers on security (and hacking) over the last ten years.
So, what should I aim for?
If you think I'm getting ahead of myself, say so. If I should go for an intermediate-level job, how do I get past HR?
Logged
ChrisG
EH-Net Columnist
Hero Member
Online
Posts: 1048
Re: entry-level or intermediate
«
Reply #1 on:
September 04, 2008, 08:52:41 PM »
looks like you know the answer to you own question.
if you posses the knowledge you say you do then i wouldn't take an junior level job. That knowledge should be demonstrable on your resume to links to your talk on your personal webpage or out on the net.
Logged
...tests i took go here...
http://carnal0wnage.blogspot.com/
Grendel
Newbie
Offline
Posts: 10
Re: entry-level or intermediate
«
Reply #2 on:
September 04, 2008, 09:56:15 PM »
I wouldn't hesitate to look for intermediate-level security positions. It would be beneficial if you had additional certs to get past HR filtering, but if you look for smaller companies you can often get past that - large companies are a completely different beast.
The 6 years of experience doing IDS is enough to qualify you for something other than entry-level slots, even if it was part time. Getting into a Sr. position is much tougher, though... just keep that in mind and keep improving your skill set. Also, load up on HR fodder (disclaimer: I don't think certs prove anything, but it does get interviews, whether people like to admit it or not... so just bite the bullet and get the certs).
Logged
ISSMP CISSP SCSECA SCNA SCSA IAM MSCS MSM
unicityd
Newbie
Offline
Posts: 14
Re: entry-level or intermediate
«
Reply #3 on:
September 05, 2008, 02:26:32 AM »
Thanks guys. I appreciate the assessment. I wanted to make sure I wouldn't be wasting my time.
I realized after reading ChrisG's response that I really needed a website that I can send potential employers to so I set up a site on Google with my resume, publications, and a personal statement. I hope it helps.
Regards.
Logged
oneeyedcarmen
Full Member
Offline
Posts: 205
Klaatu, Borada,Necktie?
Re: entry-level or intermediate
«
Reply #4 on:
September 05, 2008, 01:00:10 PM »
I'm in a "less-than-junior" role, and your description of what you've done and know made me feel, well, extra-junior
Logged
MCP, Security+, Associate (ISC)2
don
Editor-In-Chief
Administrator
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 2434
Editor-In-Chief
Re: entry-level or intermediate
«
Reply #5 on:
September 05, 2008, 02:31:49 PM »
Welcome to EH-Net. About all I can say is that Chris said it best:
Quote
looks like you know the answer to you own question.
Go for it,
Don
Logged
CISSP, MCSE, CEH, Security+ SME
unicityd
Newbie
Offline
Posts: 14
Re: entry-level or intermediate
«
Reply #6 on:
September 05, 2008, 04:28:33 PM »
Quote from: oneeyedcarmen on September 05, 2008, 01:00:10 PM
I'm in a "less-than-junior" role, and your description of what you've done and know made me feel, well, extra-junior
Well, I certainly didn't intend to make anyone feel down. I've been working at this for more than ten years; there just aren't any security jobs (zero) within an hour of where I live. I wanted to know where I stood.
Oneeyedcarmen, I do wish you the best in your endeavours.
Logged
ChrisG
EH-Net Columnist
Hero Member
Online
Posts: 1048
Re: entry-level or intermediate
«
Reply #7 on:
September 05, 2008, 06:05:21 PM »
time to move?
Logged
...tests i took go here...
http://carnal0wnage.blogspot.com/
silxp
Newbie
Offline
Posts: 13
Re: entry-level or intermediate
«
Reply #8 on:
September 05, 2008, 08:32:05 PM »
I will tell you a briefer of my history, where I've been and where I'm at...
I've been working in IT since 1992 professionally. I've worked on Everything from AS/400, Solaris, Trusted Solaris, BSDi, Free|Open|NetBSD (in professional environments), Linux (all flavors), QNX (professionally) on the systems side. On the networking side, Cisco, Juniper, Foundry, Redback, Sycamore, Bay Networks, Alcatel, Lucent, Nokia and enough to make some shed tears at retro equipment.. Security... I've written my own VoIP IDS/IPS, Enough tools to fill two to three Wikis
I'm currently assisting in creating the OWASP certification (
http://www.owasp.org/index.php/Category:OWASP_Certification_Requirements
) ctrl-f Oquendo
Anyhow... Intermediate means nothing really... What is it you REALLY want to do? Regardless of a commercial firewall, no matter the brand, a firewall is a firewall is a firewall. I've used everything from TIS FWTK, Netscreens, Checkpoint, Sidewinders, and again, enough to make people puke from so many names... Understanding a protocol means a lot more than understanding a specific. For example, waste one year of your life studying for the CCSA/E and what do you have...? Wow... Checkpoint Certified blah blah,... Will mean nothing if you don't understand the mechanisms of how the firewall itself is blocking on the OSI layer.
Learn for the sake of learning, understand as much as you can with a focus on what YOU WANT TO LEARN, not with what cert is popular. I've seen far too many a certified individual without a clue, and have seen uncertified insanely smart/scary people... As someone who interviews others constantly, I don't care about certs, I care more about experience someone has, how much they understand...
Let me give you one of my favorite questions I ALWAYS ask *nix based "experts"... "You're being attacked by a machine at 10.10.20.5 how would you block them on Linux without using a firewall" ... Most don't even understand the concept of why I ask them this and have YET to find someone I've interviewed give the correct answer... How about... nullrouting them, hosts.deny, there are other ways of doing things, and this is what truly makes someone stand out - versatility.
I currently am on vacation from working since I need a break from things... I've had the opportunity to work at an ISP, a University, the banking industry, contracting @ Big Blue, a VoIP provider, to name a few. I never tell myself "I don't know" and spend far too much time learning whatever it is I can... I could really care less about certs since I'm comfortably experienced. Currently I'm entertaining an offer from BT for pentesting, but I truly feel I need a year break from the industry...
I've gotten offers from Google, Yahoo, and who knows how many security companies WITHOUT having uber CISSP, CISM, CISA certs and have only started getting certs since the company I was recently at wanted me to get them.... So again... Why ask others to make up your mind for you... What is it YOU WANT to do... Make that choice on your own, and focus on it.... Right now I could move to any industry as a network engineer - I've 10+ years professional of Cisco, etc., as a systems engineer - +14 years various OS experience, as a security engineer +10 years PROFESSIONAL experience pentesting, firewall engineering, implementation, administration... As a security manager - been there done that...
Versatility is key... What DO YOU want to do... Not "what should I do... make up my mind for me..." The key is to enjoy doing what you want to do, figure out what you enjoy more, write them down (literally on a paper) and determine in order which is best/fun, from first to last. Make the pros and cons, and go from there. I can tell you straight up, money isn't everything and I've taken less to stay happier. Do what makes you feel better, what feels right to you... My advice
Logged
OSCP, C|EH, CNDA, CHFI, SGFA, SGFE
RoleReversal
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 507
Re: entry-level or intermediate
«
Reply #9 on:
September 06, 2008, 03:39:07 AM »
Quote from: silxp on September 05, 2008, 08:32:05 PM
... My advice
is good advice
thanks for sharing
Logged
A little bit of sanity:
http://www.infosanity.co.uk
dalepearson
Full Member
Offline
Posts: 163
Re: entry-level or intermediate
«
Reply #10 on:
September 06, 2008, 01:09:00 PM »
I think everyone has covered most things, but I will add one thing.
Believe in yourself and sell yourself at the level you feel appropriate and be positive. If you find your not getting the right interest or response, then perhaps rescope what your looking at.
All the best though.
Logged
:: Security Active ::
Pages: [
1
]
Go Up
Print
« previous
next »
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
EH-Net
-----------------------------
=> Special Events
=> Calendar Of Events
===> ChicagoCon 2007
===> ChicagoCon 2008s
===> ChicagoCon 2008f
===> ChicagoCon 2009
=> News Items and General Discussion About EH-Net
-----------------------------
Ethical Hacking Discussions and Related Certifications
-----------------------------
=> Certification
===> The Charter Study Group - Pen Test
=> Network Pen Testing
===> CEH - Certified Ethical Hacker
=====> CEH - Official Course Modules v4
=====> CEH - Official Course Modules v5
=====> CEH - Official Course Modules v6
===> CPTS - Certified Pen Testing Specialist
=====> CPTS - Official Course Modules v5
===> CPTE - Certified Pen Testing Expert
=====> CPTE - Official Course Modules v1
===> ECSA - EC-Council Certified Security Analyst
=====> ECSA - Official Course Modules v1.2
=====> ECSA / LPT - Official Course Modules v3
===> OSCP - Offensive Security Certified Professional
===> GPEN - GIAC Certified Penetration Tester
=> Forensics
===> CCE / MCCE - (Master) Certified Computer Examiner
===> CHFI - Computer Hacking Forensic Investigator
=====> CHFI - Official Course Modules v2
===> EnCE - EnCase® Certified Examiner
=> Incident Response
===> CSIH - Computer Security Incident Handler
===> GCIH - GIAC Certified Incident Handler
=> Hardware
=> Malware
=> Physical Security
=> Programming
=> Social Engineering
=> Web Applications
=> Wireless
===> CWNP Certs
===> GAWN - GIAC Assessing Wireless Networks
===> OSWP - Offensive Security Wireless Professional
=> Other
-----------------------------
Columns
-----------------------------
=> Editor-In-Chief
=> Gates
=> Heffner
=> Hoffman
=> RichM
=> Murray
=> J. Peltier
=> Wilson
-----------------------------
Features
-----------------------------
=> /root
=> Book Reviews
=> Opinions
=> Skillz
===> Examples
===> May 06 - Star Hacks, Episode V: The Empire Hacks Back
===> July 06 - Hack Bill!
===> Sept 06 - Netcat in the Hat
===> Nov 06 - Hitch-Hackers Guide to the Galaxy
===> Dec 06 - A Christmas (Hacking) Story
===> Feb 07 - Charlottes Web Site
===> April 07 - Microsoft Office Space
===> June 07 - Serenity Hack
===> Oct 07 - Worst. Ethical. Hacker. Challenge. Ever.
===> Dec 07 - Frosty the Snow Crash
===> March 2008 - It Happened One Friday
===> Oct 2008 - Scooby Doo and the Crypto Caper
===> Dec 08 - Santa Claus Is Hacking to Town
-----------------------------
Resources
-----------------------------
=> Career Central
===> Looking For Work
===> Looking To Hire
=> Links to cool sites.
=> Mass Media
=> News from the Outside World
=> Tools
=> Tutorials
Loading...
Sponsors
Polls
How many security events including conferences and training do you attend a year:
1 - 2
3 - 4
5 - 6
7+
None - But want to
None - Choose not to
Support EH-Net
Support EH-Net by
Buying all of your
Amazon items using
the search bar above.
Try CBT Nuggets Free!
Recent Forum Topics
CEH - Certified Ethical Hacker
: CEH is a scam
(15) by
w007
Links to cool sites.
: Free Computer Engineering Classes From Stanford
(2) by
shednik
Book Reviews
: Need a book suggestion!
(1) by
BillV
Book Reviews
: [Article]-Mitnick - The Art Of Intrusion: Ch 1 - Hacking The Casinos For A Million Bu...
(4) by
ethicalhack3r
News Items and General Discussion About EH-Net
: [Article]-Jan 2009 Free Giveaway Sponsor - Black Hat DC
(0) by
don
News Items and General Discussion About EH-Net
: EH-Net Milestone - 2 Articles Cross 1 Million Page Views
(3) by
BillV
Other
: What kind of lab, machines you have for your security testing?
(12) by
charlottebandit
Wireless
: Wireless Pen Testing Cards
(5) by
charlottebandit
Oct 2008 - Scooby Doo and the Crypto Caper
: [Article]-Scooby Doo and the Crypto Caper - Answers and Winners
(1) by
vijay2
Oct 2008 - Scooby Doo and the Crypto Caper
: Skillz October 08 Winning Entry - Creative
(0) by
don
Oct 2008 - Scooby Doo and the Crypto Caper
: Skillz October 08 Winning Entry - Technical
(0) by
don
Malware
: Network Virus Problem
(9) by
RoleReversal
Wireless
: WUSB600N good usb ?
(2) by
nap191
News from the Outside World
: Is this acceptable?
(8) by
NickFnord
Other
: FBI code cracking challenge
(3) by
jimbob
Calendar Of Events
: RSA 2009
(0) by
don
Forensics
: Network Forensic tools/practice/techniques
(2) by
jimbob
Malware
: Autoplay when i try to open the drive.
(4) by
jimbob
Physical Security
: Magnetic stripe card spoofing
(4) by
jimbob
Malware
: THe website is Evil but what to do??
(1) by
jimbob
Other
: Insanity?
(3) by
jason
CEH - Certified Ethical Hacker
: Any Practice Environment for learning tool for CEH?
(15) by
don
Wireless
: a petri-dish bridge
(2) by
don
CEH - Certified Ethical Hacker
: TFTP Tranfer time out
(5) by
jason
Tools
: tool to trace users
(8) by
pseud0
Malware
: Malware Challenge 2008 Analysis
(0) by
blackazarro
Programming
: Python 3.0 Released
(0) by
don
Forensics
: SANS SIFT Forensic toolkit
(1) by
don
Links to cool sites.
: Omgili Hacking - Another Search Engine dedicated to Hacking Related Forums
(2) by
RoleReversal
Tools
: Insecure.org's 2006 Top 100 Security Tools List Released
(10) by
shednik
Malware
: Security Forecast for 2009
(4) by
shednik
Other
: Happy New Year!
(8) by
vijay2
CEH - Official Course Modules v6
: Community-built CEH Wiki
(2) by
yehg
Links to cool sites.
: 25C3 25th Chaos Communication Congress
(4) by
alan
Other
: Math Review
(3) by
don
Other
: will this get me anywhere?
(5) by
jason
Physical Security
: Cloning the e-passport
(0) by
jason
Dec 08 - Santa Claus Is Hacking to Town
: [Article]-Santa Claus is Hacking to Town
(10) by
vijay2
Vote For EH-Net
progenic.com
binarica.com
technorati fave
Privacy Notice
for TDCC & All Properties
© 2009 The Ethical Hacker Network
Joomla!
is Free Software released under the GNU/GPL License.