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You are here: Home arrow Forum arrow Ethical Hacking Discussions and Related Certificationsarrow Otherarrow Pen Testing as a business
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December 02, 2008, 01:59:25 AM *
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Author Topic: Pen Testing as a business  (Read 3362 times)
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llewell
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« on: August 28, 2008, 08:57:05 AM »

  Let's say you want to do pen testing as an independent contractor.  I would think this is a general plan:

  Set up a business structure as a corp or perhaps LLC.  Do the right thing about getting an accountant, paying franchise taxes, keeping personal and business money separate.  It all costs money and raises overhead, but will be critical if there are any legal problems down the road.  Also makes it possible to subcontract from larger firms who can't deal with individuals and DBA's.

  Liability insurance.  Looks like risky business.  How much?  A million? More?  (Ouch...)

  It looks like not your basic nine-to-five kind of job.  Nobody's going to want you to try to knock over their network during THEIR business hours.

  PCI compliance looks like a good place to look for clients.  Who would you talk to in your area to find out how to get into that area?

  What else?
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dalepearson
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« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2008, 09:13:26 AM »

Not sure what it like in the US, but there are people you can speak to here in the UK for advice on setting up a business.
Things such as setting yourself up as a limited company, getting the right banking arrangements, accounts, sorting insurance and general advice on the laws and regulations that will have an impact on you. So I cant really help you out in this area.

With regards to is it a 9 - 5 job, I think it will depend on the customers requirements. Many tests to be considered appropriate will often be carried out on a production environment, unless a UAT environment is considered appropriate. So as you say a customer doesn want you to bring the systems down, they want you to evaluate the security posture of the environment, and report on vulnerabilities and exploits that a hacker would use to gain access / abuse their systems. So certainly in my experiance most Pen Tests are non intrusive / non damaging in that respect, but there are instances where a customer hires you to carry out a job, and wants you to be as realistic as possible.

With regards to PCI compliance, this is a hot and ever growing area at the moment, with less than 10% of companies globally being officially compliant with the PCI:DSS standards. If you want to be a QSA (Qualified Security Assessor), you need to be annually certified, subject to review and testing, and from what I gather its not cheap for a one man band. You can get more information from the PCI Security Standards Council.
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llewell
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« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2008, 09:59:35 AM »

Hmm, I see what you mean, Dale.  Just looking at the ASV requirements, it looks doable until you get to the experience requirements.  It begins to look like you need several people doing the pen testing and at least one person keeping track of whether you can recertify next year.  Probably a lot to chew on for a one-person operation.
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ChrisG
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« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2008, 10:49:22 AM »

if you dont have customers or a niche, i'm wondering why we need yet another pen test shop?
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dalepearson
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« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2008, 10:50:28 AM »

Probably a lot to chew on for a one-person operation.

Its doable, but like anything, alot of involvement required, and cost.
I am not sure what its like in the US, but many of the merchants here make recomendations of QSA's to use, and to my knowledge all of the ones I have worked with are part of large organisations, no individuals.

So before going ahead with it, I would look into what work you would likely get from it.

Dont forget though, you dont need to be a QSA to help an organisation work towards certification. PCI:DSS isnt a black art (seems that way sometimes though) its just a bunch of requirements to meet, and most should be best practice anyway.
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dalepearson
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« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2008, 10:51:42 AM »

if you dont have customers or a niche, i'm wondering why we need yet another pen test shop?

Everyone wants a piece of that PenTest Pie  Grin
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vijay2
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« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2008, 10:56:16 AM »

"Everyone wants a piece of that PenTest Pie  Grin"

Just wondering if its the real Pen Test or Hand out a Nessus scan report as Pen Test Results SmileySmiley
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GPEN GCIH CISSP GSEC OSCP C|EH MCSE CNE Security+
oleDB
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« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2008, 12:08:52 PM »

NO DOUBT, there are tons of "legit" companies walking around simply running a va scan and handing them a stock report. What a joke and nobody knows any better. As long as the box gets checked. I once had some idiot at an unamed company tell me that their pentest was only running firewalk from the outside. Apparently firewalk was their magic bullet for security.

I think a one man pen test shop could only cater to really small businesses. Anything bigger and your gonna want a whole team, with a few guys that specialize in various areas. I've thought about that idea, as far as doing it on the side. As long as you can line up customers and provide value, why not.
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BillV
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« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2008, 01:46:49 PM »

Liability insurance.  Looks like risky business.  How much?  A million? More?  (Ouch...)

You will need at least a 2M GL plan if you are going to be doing PCI ASV or QSA. You should also get Errors & Omission insurance as well.
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vijay2
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« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2008, 02:20:31 PM »

I tend to agree with Bill on Pen Testing is not a one man show. To give any organization a true value for thier money, it is a team effort. You need to have varied level of skill set from network  pen testing to web app testing to client side attacks and  we dont wanna forget about writing good a report.

I think gone are the days when you could hand over a VA report and be done with it. In my opinion if you cannot provide a value of the pen test in terms of business risks  it wont do any good.
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llewell
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« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2008, 01:06:28 PM »

  I asked this question because in the course of a contracting position I spoke to a couple of guys who said they did pen testing.  We didn't get into their exact business model, but they were operating in rural parts of the US and the context of the conversations led me to believe that they were loners.

  I've seen comments before this thread about the field becoming more specialized, so I expect these guys are only able to do this because they are in the sticks.

  Yeah, a one-person shop probably could only service very small businesses.  Just try and sell them on the idea, and then try to get paid. 

  Guess I need to find out who's offering pen testing services around here (Rochester, NY).
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ChrisG
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« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2008, 01:50:36 PM »

out in the sticks and doing pentesting at an affordable price would be a good niche to me  Wink
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$w33p3R
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« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2008, 11:43:57 PM »

Finishing up my ECSA/LPT course tomorrow.  Everybody say "woohoo for me". LOL

I would think Pen Testing your local or state market would be a descent business and living, especially if you live in a small state that might not be saturated with security firms.  But of course, I always encourage entrepreneurship..It's the American dream and the dream of many others in other countries.

As for me, I am already employed in the IT industry and will just use mine for network security position for now.  There are many job opportunities for those in the network security industry, not just starting your own company.

But, for whatever you choose to do with your, I wish everyone the best of luck.
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MCP, CEH
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