Home
Calendar
Certifications
Columns
Features
Forum
Resources
Vitals
Latest Additions
Jan 2009 Free Giveaway Sponsor - Black Hat DC
Scooby Doo and the Crypto Caper - Answers and Winners
Daemon - A Contest Revealed
Nov 2008 Free Giveaway - Winners
Hacking: The Art of Exploitation 2nd Edition
Dec 2008 Free Giveaway Sponsor - SANS
Santa Claus is Hacking to Town
Plug-N-Play Network Hacking
Nov 2008 Free Giveaway Sponsor - CWNP
Daemon - A Contest Begins Now
It Happened One Friday - Answers and Winners
Daemon - A Contest
Scooby Doo and the Crypto Caper
MS Blue Hat Hackers Headline Chicago Security Con
The Pen Testing Perfect Storm Webcast Series with Skoudis, Wright, Johnson
EH-Net Login
Welcome Guest.
Username:
Password:
Remember me
Lost Password?
No account yet?
Register
Who's Online
We have 23 guests and 2 members online
EH-Net Donations
Enter Amount:
$
CAD
USD
GBP
AUD
JPY
EUR
Google Ads
EH-Net News Feeds
Latest Additions
Book Recommendations
You are here:
Home
Forum
Ethical Hacking Discussions and Related Certifications
Network Pen Testing
Hacking is in his end?
Ethical Hacker Community Forums
January 08, 2009, 09:08:43 PM
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
Did you miss your
activation email?
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
News
: ChicagoCon 2009 - May 4 - 9. Boot Camps & an Ethical Hacking Conf.
www.chicagocon.com
Home
Help
Calendar
Login
Register
Ethical Hacker Community Forums
>
Ethical Hacking Discussions and Related Certifications
>
Network Pen Testing
(Moderator:
don
) >
Hacking is in his end?
Pages: [
1
]
Go Down
« previous
next »
Print
Author
Topic: Hacking is in his end? (Read 3908 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
3pzi10n
Newbie
Offline
Posts: 2
Hacking is in his end?
«
on:
July 31, 2008, 01:06:28 PM »
I think this should be an nice question tu argue, and this because of many of us dedicate to security. Java, .NET are the future of applications and web services so where does buffer overflows and format string bugs goes? Accionally many of the vulnerabilities that we exploit are cause of this miss undestanding of safe programming. Millions of lines of codes have been patched againts this flaws.
So where do you think security is going, to Social Engineering (boring), to anit virus technologies (kind of Social Engineering), to IDS/IPS tech.
In Past Conventions on Defcon and BlackHat, nothing new or even intersting.
No new attacks techniques?
so were are in a dead spot, or it is really the end of security as we know it.
Logged
Kev
Sr. Member
Offline
Posts: 359
Re: Hacking is in his end?
«
Reply #1 on:
July 31, 2008, 10:48:21 PM »
There seems to be a common misconception that hacking is mostly exploiting flaws in software. This couldn't be further from the truth. Regardless if "new" techniques are coming out every few weeks or months or whatever, that certainly doesn't mean there are not a lot of vulnerable servers out there. Its really all about the security of data and can we access it without authorization. This is what we are hired to do. Of course we have certain "rules of engagement" and we cant kidnap someone and force them to give us their password at gun point, lol.
Regardless whether I can access data via a buffer overflow, crack a password, hijacking services, fooling authentication systems, social engineering, etc... if I can gain access to data I am not authorized to access, I feel I have compromised that security. If I trick someone into giving me their password, is that "hacking"? Well not really in my interpretation of the word, but its the public impression of the term. Did it allow me to have unauthorized access to data? Maybe. In this context, the era of "hacking" is hardly coming to an end.
Logged
oldgrue
Newbie
Offline
Posts: 7
Re: Hacking is in his end?
«
Reply #2 on:
August 04, 2008, 10:13:04 AM »
The security of a program isn't always about sanitized validated inputs and dropping invalid data. A program can only be as secure as the environment in which it resides: hard and software. Millions of lines of less than secure code notwithstanding the further consideration of what code interacts muddies the situation significantly.
http://www.ntguard.com/article.cfm/id/341504
further underscores that as we add complexity, we risk adding vulnerability.
Coders are under time,financial, and interoperability constraints that inject inevitable flaws into their end product. Good practice and QC become limited by client needs, production schedules, and limitations of manpower. Manufacturers mitigate these needs as reasonably as they can within these limitations. Flawed code doesn't seem to be going away.
Social engineering is never going to go away because we're flawed creatures. we want to be helpful, useful, liked, and appreciated. We'd have to take the human element out.
AV technologies will continue to struggle to keep up with the virii available if only for the percieved protection they provide. Per the refernces in the link above, I dare say AV technologies might have become near self-perpetuating.
I wouldn't attribute the lack of new tools and techniques to a lack of them existing, rather a lull in publishing. People can only explore so much before repeating research. This career has been punctuated by bursts of frenzied discoveries based on other research. We are just as likely to be experiencing the calm before the storm.
Logged
oneeyedcarmen
Full Member
Offline
Posts: 205
Klaatu, Borada,Necktie?
Re: Hacking is in his end?
«
Reply #3 on:
August 04, 2008, 02:41:05 PM »
Why are you trying to hack in his end?
This isn't that kind of bar, buddy.
Logged
MCP, Security+, Associate (ISC)2
RoleReversal
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 508
Re: Hacking is in his end?
«
Reply #4 on:
August 04, 2008, 03:07:41 PM »
Quote from: oneeyedcarmen on August 04, 2008, 02:41:05 PM
Why are you trying to hack in his end?
This isn't that kind of bar, buddy.
nothing like lowering the tone.......
Logged
A little bit of sanity:
http://www.infosanity.co.uk
dalepearson
Full Member
Offline
Posts: 163
Re: Hacking is in his end?
«
Reply #5 on:
August 04, 2008, 04:21:04 PM »
As already stated Social Engineering is here to stay, and I dont think its boring its actually an area that really interest me. Many organisation still under estimate this factor, and do not invest in education and awareness.
With regards to is hacking coming to an end, I think it depends what you define as hacking. Hacking to me is manipulating something to do something it was not specifically designed to do, and I think this will always be a possibility.
Internet is still in its infacy I feel, as we move more and more towards doing computing in the cloud, security will become ever more important, but the stuff we see today will still exist in new flavours, viruses, exploits, denial of service.
I am still looking forward to my life in the world of InfoSec.
Logged
:: Security Active ::
Simon
Newbie
Offline
Posts: 18
Re: Hacking is in his end?
«
Reply #6 on:
August 19, 2008, 08:43:33 PM »
As stated, application security is far more than buffer overflows and format string vulnerabilities.
I've rarely found exploitable (as in arbitrary code execution) buffer overflows on externally visible resources (internal is a different story). I've
frequently
found application vulnerabilities such as SQL Injection (much less common in .NET than classic ASP). Even more common are business logic vulnerabilities -- not so much technical (like SQL Injection, XSS, CSRF, etc.), but flaws in the business logic of the application that lead to a compromise. Things like having the price of a store item as a hidden form field.
Or having a form to allow users to download VCS files from an online calendar application....and not checking the file location that is passed into the download app. Just had that recently -- allowed me to download any file on the server if I modified that hidden form field. Downloaded the SAM and SECURITY files from the repair directory, cracked them and logged into the server as an Administrator.
The skill (and the fun) in hacking is finding those vulnerabilities wherever and however they present themselves, not in trying a pre-defined set of tests and seeing what works. The application layer is where the majority of exploits have migrated to.
Logged
C|EH, ECSA, C|EI
http://www.halock.com
ChrisG
EH-Net Columnist
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 1049
Re: Hacking is in his end?
«
Reply #7 on:
August 21, 2008, 10:36:38 AM »
Good question and good thread.
I am going to agree with Simon, its very rare to find something remotely exploitable (network level) from an external look. Web App is another story but its getting harder and harder to get a shell from that. But you can see data you shouldn't see all day and that's really where security is going, protecting the data over getting a shell. Getting a shell is still more fun though.
Alot of the current vulnerabilities are user level, in fact someone I respect said "client sides are the new remotes" and I think he is correct. Getting users to execute your code is the new way for remote entry and catching those outbound connections will be the next (well really current) thing to protect against.
I personally dont consider SE boring, trying to outsmart whoever it is you are trying to SE should be a good challenge and will only get harder as things go on.
Logged
...tests i took go here...
http://carnal0wnage.blogspot.com/
Simon
Newbie
Offline
Posts: 18
Re: Hacking is in his end?
«
Reply #8 on:
August 21, 2008, 11:28:17 AM »
Heck....SE is some of the most fun you get to have as a hacker
I'm not sure that I agree entirely on the rarity of shell access remotely through web apps, though. I just pulled one today (SQL Server 2k5, with an ISS IPS in place, so it was a bit tricky).
I will certainly agree that they're becoming more scarce in current iterations of web programming languages (.NET is
vastly
better with security than classic ASP)....but legacy code and vulnerable applications in current languages are not too difficult to come by....at least, not yet
Logged
C|EH, ECSA, C|EI
http://www.halock.com
ChrisG
EH-Net Columnist
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 1049
Re: Hacking is in his end?
«
Reply #9 on:
August 21, 2008, 03:20:51 PM »
2k5, very nice. i'd like to hear a bit more about that.
Logged
...tests i took go here...
http://carnal0wnage.blogspot.com/
Simon
Newbie
Offline
Posts: 18
Re: Hacking is in his end?
«
Reply #10 on:
August 21, 2008, 03:28:07 PM »
Quote from: ChrisG on August 21, 2008, 03:20:51 PM
2k5, very nice. i'd like to hear a bit more about that.
Certainly....though to avoid derailing the thread, we should probably take it to PM (or a new thread, if you prefer).
Logged
C|EH, ECSA, C|EI
http://www.halock.com
oneeyedcarmen
Full Member
Offline
Posts: 205
Klaatu, Borada,Necktie?
Re: Hacking is in his end?
«
Reply #11 on:
August 21, 2008, 03:38:41 PM »
Please start a new thread, as I'm sure that several of us are interested
Logged
MCP, Security+, Associate (ISC)2
Simon
Newbie
Offline
Posts: 18
Re: Hacking is in his end?
«
Reply #12 on:
August 21, 2008, 05:27:07 PM »
Quote from: oneeyedcarmen on August 21, 2008, 03:38:41 PM
Please start a new thread, as I'm sure that several of us are interested
For your enjoyment:
http://www.ethicalhacker.net/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,54/topic,2814.0/
Logged
C|EH, ECSA, C|EI
http://www.halock.com
Pages: [
1
]
Go Up
Print
« previous
next »
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
EH-Net
-----------------------------
=> Special Events
=> Calendar Of Events
===> ChicagoCon 2007
===> ChicagoCon 2008s
===> ChicagoCon 2008f
===> ChicagoCon 2009
=> News Items and General Discussion About EH-Net
-----------------------------
Ethical Hacking Discussions and Related Certifications
-----------------------------
=> Certification
===> The Charter Study Group - Pen Test
=> Network Pen Testing
===> CEH - Certified Ethical Hacker
=====> CEH - Official Course Modules v4
=====> CEH - Official Course Modules v5
=====> CEH - Official Course Modules v6
===> CPTS - Certified Pen Testing Specialist
=====> CPTS - Official Course Modules v5
===> CPTE - Certified Pen Testing Expert
=====> CPTE - Official Course Modules v1
===> ECSA - EC-Council Certified Security Analyst
=====> ECSA - Official Course Modules v1.2
=====> ECSA / LPT - Official Course Modules v3
===> OSCP - Offensive Security Certified Professional
===> GPEN - GIAC Certified Penetration Tester
=> Forensics
===> CCE / MCCE - (Master) Certified Computer Examiner
===> CHFI - Computer Hacking Forensic Investigator
=====> CHFI - Official Course Modules v2
===> EnCE - EnCase® Certified Examiner
=> Incident Response
===> CSIH - Computer Security Incident Handler
===> GCIH - GIAC Certified Incident Handler
=> Hardware
=> Malware
=> Physical Security
=> Programming
=> Social Engineering
=> Web Applications
=> Wireless
===> CWNP Certs
===> GAWN - GIAC Assessing Wireless Networks
===> OSWP - Offensive Security Wireless Professional
=> Other
-----------------------------
Columns
-----------------------------
=> Editor-In-Chief
=> Gates
=> Heffner
=> Hoffman
=> RichM
=> Murray
=> J. Peltier
=> Wilson
-----------------------------
Features
-----------------------------
=> /root
=> Book Reviews
=> Opinions
=> Skillz
===> Examples
===> May 06 - Star Hacks, Episode V: The Empire Hacks Back
===> July 06 - Hack Bill!
===> Sept 06 - Netcat in the Hat
===> Nov 06 - Hitch-Hackers Guide to the Galaxy
===> Dec 06 - A Christmas (Hacking) Story
===> Feb 07 - Charlottes Web Site
===> April 07 - Microsoft Office Space
===> June 07 - Serenity Hack
===> Oct 07 - Worst. Ethical. Hacker. Challenge. Ever.
===> Dec 07 - Frosty the Snow Crash
===> March 2008 - It Happened One Friday
===> Oct 2008 - Scooby Doo and the Crypto Caper
===> Dec 08 - Santa Claus Is Hacking to Town
-----------------------------
Resources
-----------------------------
=> Career Central
===> Looking For Work
===> Looking To Hire
=> Links to cool sites.
=> Mass Media
=> News from the Outside World
=> Tools
=> Tutorials
Loading...
Sponsors
Polls
How many security events including conferences and training do you attend a year:
1 - 2
3 - 4
5 - 6
7+
None - But want to
None - Choose not to
Support EH-Net
Support EH-Net by
Buying all of your
Amazon items using
the search bar above.
Try CBT Nuggets Free!
Recent Forum Topics
Web Applications
: Determine URL from IP address
(2) by
BillV
Malware
: uninstall trend mciro officescan clients
(1) by
adamj
Book Reviews
: Need a book suggestion!
(3) by
ethicalhack3r
Tools
: Core Impact Essentials
(0) by
sgt_mjc
News from the Outside World
: Google branching out a little further...
(3) by
jason
Physical Security
: Magnetic stripe card spoofing
(5) by
jason
Gates
: Oracle version module for metasploit
(3) by
RoleReversal
Malware
: THe website is Evil but what to do??
(3) by
NickFnord
CEH - Certified Ethical Hacker
: Helow... help some tutorials...
(7) by
K3lV1n
CEH - Certified Ethical Hacker
: CEH is a scam
(20) by
K3lV1n
Mass Media
: Daniel Suarez Interview
(9) by
blackazarro
Malware
: Security Forecast for 2009
(5) by
jason
News from the Outside World
: Is this acceptable?
(9) by
jason
Wireless
: Wireless Pen Testing Cards
(6) by
jason
Oct 2008 - Scooby Doo and the Crypto Caper
: Skillz October 08 Winning Entry - Technical
(1) by
jason
Book Reviews
: [Article]-Mitnick - The Art Of Intrusion: Ch 1 - Hacking The Casinos For A Million Bu...
(5) by
jason
Links to cool sites.
: Free Computer Engineering Classes From Stanford
(3) by
jason
Oct 2008 - Scooby Doo and the Crypto Caper
: Skillz October 08 Winning Entry - Creative
(1) by
jason
Oct 2008 - Scooby Doo and the Crypto Caper
: [Article]-Scooby Doo and the Crypto Caper - Answers and Winners
(2) by
jason
News Items and General Discussion About EH-Net
: [Article]-Jan 2009 Free Giveaway Sponsor - Black Hat DC
(1) by
jason
News Items and General Discussion About EH-Net
: EH-Net Milestone - 2 Articles Cross 1 Million Page Views
(3) by
BillV
Other
: What kind of lab, machines you have for your security testing?
(12) by
charlottebandit
Malware
: Network Virus Problem
(9) by
RoleReversal
Wireless
: WUSB600N good usb ?
(2) by
nap191
Other
: FBI code cracking challenge
(3) by
jimbob
Calendar Of Events
: RSA 2009
(0) by
don
Forensics
: Network Forensic tools/practice/techniques
(2) by
jimbob
Malware
: Autoplay when i try to open the drive.
(4) by
jimbob
Other
: Insanity?
(3) by
jason
CEH - Certified Ethical Hacker
: Any Practice Environment for learning tool for CEH?
(15) by
don
Wireless
: a petri-dish bridge
(2) by
don
CEH - Certified Ethical Hacker
: TFTP Tranfer time out
(5) by
jason
Tools
: tool to trace users
(8) by
pseud0
Malware
: Malware Challenge 2008 Analysis
(0) by
blackazarro
Programming
: Python 3.0 Released
(0) by
don
Forensics
: SANS SIFT Forensic toolkit
(1) by
don
Links to cool sites.
: Omgili Hacking - Another Search Engine dedicated to Hacking Related Forums
(2) by
RoleReversal
Tools
: Insecure.org's 2006 Top 100 Security Tools List Released
(10) by
shednik
Other
: Happy New Year!
(8) by
vijay2
CEH - Official Course Modules v6
: Community-built CEH Wiki
(2) by
yehg
Vote For EH-Net
progenic.com
binarica.com
technorati fave
Privacy Notice
for TDCC & All Properties
© 2009 The Ethical Hacker Network
Joomla!
is Free Software released under the GNU/GPL License.