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You are here: Home arrow Forum arrow Ethical Hacking Discussions and Related Certificationsarrow Otherarrow Meh.. I wouldn't say it's all 100% on... but some of it's pretty good.
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May 24, 2012, 03:39:49 PM *
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Author Topic: Meh.. I wouldn't say it's all 100% on... but some of it's pretty good.  (Read 5224 times)
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g00d_4sh
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« on: April 23, 2008, 12:50:34 PM »

http://www.ranum.com/security/computer_security/editorials/dumb/

Interesting read, though I think the guy is a bit idealistic on the built in security concept.  White lists vs Black lists are definately smarter though.  None the less, it's worth a read from us I warrant.
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LSOChris
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« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2008, 04:57:29 PM »

that editorial is garbage

see david maynor's response
http://erratasec.blogspot.com/2008/04/why-pentrate-and-patch-idea-is-not-only.html
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g00d_4sh
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« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2008, 05:57:14 PM »

Definately his number 3 and 4 thoughts are stupid.  Numbers 1,2, and 6 I agree with in a number of situations.  Though... arguably his #1 and #2 are pretty much rewording of the same issue.  I agree with white listing vs black listing, so I guess that's what I liked from the article after reading it again heh.  #5, with keeping the users ignorant, kind of cracks me up.  Then again, I work in the government where half of the people I work with know as much about their basic computer as they do about rocket science... hense it's a bit of a mute point.  I did like his #1 and 2 (or just #1 if you take into account that they're basically the same) argument.  Obviously no one would agree with his take on #3 or 4 who reads this forum. Wink  Perhaps I saw more good in his article due to the coppious amounts of pain killers they are pushing into me for my spine.  Heh, none the less, yeah white list.. boo black list... kill the pig, drink it's blood?
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LSOChris
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« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2008, 06:37:09 PM »

well the best part is that he works for tenable (nessus) now so he's right on in there with patching and hacking is cool.

he just needs to delete that tripe
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Kev
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« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2008, 06:58:43 PM »

Hmm, I gave it a quick once over and I got the feeling he was saying if we just had more secure code there would be no more hacking or breaching, time would be better spent in that direction (writing better code) rather than learning hacking methodology. The problem with that simplistic argument is that there is more to hacking than just running exploits!  Thats not the only way to breach security and gain data.
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LSOChris
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« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2008, 07:31:37 PM »

what he is saying is that all that hacking stuff is dumb and the fix is to write secure code to start with (which is good), too bad he doesnt say what to do with all the old bad code out there that everyone isnt going to immediately replace with my new badass secure code that still doesnt exist.

while pieces of his argument make sense, the rest isnt grounded in anything remotely actionable and therefore makes it mostly or all worthless. 

its like saying the solution to the gas problem isnt ironing out why gas is high now; its building cars that dont require gasoline or get 100+ miles to the gallon.  both solutions are great, but dont exist, so what are to do RIGHT NOW??!!!

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Andrew Waite
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« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2008, 03:37:23 AM »

I'll skip over most of the article as the relevance/bias has already been covered.

The aspect that confused me was 'the minor dumbs' section. The writer laughs at/insults anyone that is looking for a silver bullet and doesn't practice defense in depth, yet has written an entire article aimed to removing an available tool in a security setup. I agree that if we had more secure applications we would need less after market security, but to use his own comparision
'would you trust your life to the aviation industry if they only took the manufacturers word that the plane isn't going to fall out the sky, without testing it first?

I'd say this guy has an agenda or a screw-lose.
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oneeyedcarmen
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« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2008, 08:18:00 AM »

Quote from: g00d_4sh
... hense it's a bit of a mute point.

I believe the term you're looking for is "moo point."  Like what a cow says...it doesn't make sense or matter...it's moo.   Wink
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Andrew Waite
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« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2008, 09:06:47 AM »

I believe the term you're looking for is "moo point."  Like what a cow says...it doesn't make sense or matter...it's moo.   Wink

Either that's a coincidence or an intentional quote, either way brightened my work day, cheers Cheesy
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oneeyedcarmen
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« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2008, 09:55:28 AM »

Either that's a coincidence or an intentional quote, either way brightened my work day, cheers Cheesy

Credit where credit is due...probably the funniest thing ever said on Friends
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