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I need some opinions.
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I need some opinions.
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cleanwithit0607
Newbie
Offline
Posts: 49
Re: I need some opinions.
«
Reply #30 on:
June 05, 2008, 05:03:06 PM »
Quote from: ohtechwiz on June 05, 2008, 10:21:42 AM
Counter Hack Reloaded is an excellent resource. It was used as the text book for my first network security class. I took it with me to my first cyber defense competition and referenced it regularly.
Thank ohtechwiz, I will order it on Amazon tonight when I get home. I appreciate your response.
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A+, Network +, Security +, Linux +,
MCP/MCTS: Vista Config.
Work in progress: CEH
Currently Reading: Hacking-The Art Of Exploitation.
Recommended book: Counter Hack Reloaded.
g00d_4sh
Sr. Member
Offline
Posts: 394
Re: I need some opinions.
«
Reply #31 on:
June 05, 2008, 05:15:49 PM »
I already have too many books on my shelf.. that I'm about 1/3rd of the way through.
I'll look into it when I'm done with those, good to know of another good resource though.
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"Bad.. Good? I'm the guy with the gun"
cleanwithit0607
Newbie
Offline
Posts: 49
Re: I need some opinions.
«
Reply #32 on:
June 05, 2008, 05:19:06 PM »
Quote from: g00d_4sh on June 05, 2008, 05:15:49 PM
I already have too many books on my shelf.. that I'm about 1/3rd of the way through.
I'll look into it when I'm done with those, good to know of another good resource though.
Yea, I hope to get to that point. I just need a good supplement to my studies, while I'm at work I get quite bored.
lolz.
But yea, I read the description of Counter Hack Reloaded, and it seemed really good.
«
Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 05:20:42 PM by cleanwithit0607
»
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A+, Network +, Security +, Linux +,
MCP/MCTS: Vista Config.
Work in progress: CEH
Currently Reading: Hacking-The Art Of Exploitation.
Recommended book: Counter Hack Reloaded.
phn1x
Newbie
Offline
Posts: 26
Re: I need some opinions.
«
Reply #33 on:
June 05, 2008, 05:51:53 PM »
Here is a better piece of advice than going and obtaining n^n-1 amount of certifications. GET EXPERIENCE!
That's right get a job, Ask most people in a management position what they are looking for and it's experience. Your degree will carry you, and SECURITY+ is kind of IMHO a useless certification. 100 question, 13 minutes to take the exam and it tests your ability to memorize a security dictionary.
Experience will carry you much further than the certifications. However, if you want to play in the DOD arena you will need certain certifications. but the best advice is to get in and get experience under your belt.
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g00d_4sh
Sr. Member
Offline
Posts: 394
Re: I need some opinions.
«
Reply #34 on:
June 05, 2008, 06:18:27 PM »
Part of the reason I have a library of 1/3rd of the way read books.. is that I'm working full time as a network/security guy. Thank God they pay for most the books I get, since it's 'work related' haha.
Also going to school fulltime to get more school based experience.. besides my on the job experience. You're right experience is #1, but having certs = more $.
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"Bad.. Good? I'm the guy with the gun"
cleanwithit0607
Newbie
Offline
Posts: 49
Re: I need some opinions.
«
Reply #35 on:
June 05, 2008, 06:30:54 PM »
Quote from: phn1x on June 05, 2008, 05:51:53 PM
Here is a better piece of advice than going and obtaining n^n-1 amount of certifications. GET EXPERIENCE!
That's right get a job, Ask most people in a management position what they are looking for and it's experience. Your degree will carry you, and SECURITY+ is kind of IMHO a useless certification. 100 question, 13 minutes to take the exam and it tests your ability to memorize a security dictionary.
Experience will carry you much further than the certifications. However, if you want to play in the DOD arena you will need certain certifications. but the best advice is to get in and get experience under your belt.
That's what I'm trying to do. But here's the thing, at UPS they want you to have certain certifications to atleast be given the oppurtunity to get experience. I wish I could leave UPS and get a security job, but they pay my tuition, and they pay me to go to school(bonus $$). You have a good point that I should get experience, but some places just want paper certs to show you're motivated,and can learn.
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A+, Network +, Security +, Linux +,
MCP/MCTS: Vista Config.
Work in progress: CEH
Currently Reading: Hacking-The Art Of Exploitation.
Recommended book: Counter Hack Reloaded.
cleanwithit0607
Newbie
Offline
Posts: 49
Re: I need some opinions.
«
Reply #36 on:
June 05, 2008, 06:33:57 PM »
Quote from: g00d_4sh on June 05, 2008, 06:18:27 PM
Part of the reason I have a library of 1/3rd of the way read books.. is that I'm working full time as a network/security guy. Thank God they pay for most the books I get, since it's 'work related' haha.
Also going to school fulltime to get more school based experience.. besides my on the job experience. You're right experience is #1, but having certs = more $.
Hey g00d_4sh, How did you get your start in security? Did you have Certifications before you got the job?
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A+, Network +, Security +, Linux +,
MCP/MCTS: Vista Config.
Work in progress: CEH
Currently Reading: Hacking-The Art Of Exploitation.
Recommended book: Counter Hack Reloaded.
Dengar13
Sr. Member
Offline
Posts: 380
Re: I need some opinions.
«
Reply #37 on:
June 05, 2008, 06:35:38 PM »
And those "useless" certs like Sec+ help get you in the door...
To get the experience you need (in a lot of cases) to have certs to get an interview.
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A+, Net+, MCP, CEH
MCSE: Security/Messaging
MCSA: Security/Messaging
Former U.S. Marine and damn proud of it!
g00d_4sh
Sr. Member
Offline
Posts: 394
Re: I need some opinions.
«
Reply #38 on:
June 05, 2008, 07:32:06 PM »
I was actually running my own landscaping business... and one of my biggest customers pulled me aside one day.. and said "Can you see yourself doing this in 10 years?" I was like... "Nope". And he outlined going back to school, getting some certs and working with computers. He suggested that since I'd always been into computers, and had talked with him about his own set up and company a number of times. He started and just sold a nation wide company that deals with Library software. Including cutting edge OCR and whatnot. Pretty nifty stuff, but it was our talks that got him to tell me to get a job doing it.
I started back into school, and a DOI sub-branch was looking for a cheap student intern. Cheap being the relative word I think. I didn't have any certs to start with, but I had already taken a number of classes, and just had a good base to start with. Did well at the interview, was hired on, and quickly turned full time. And it's been rather easy to quickly move into more responsibility (and money) by demonstrating ability. IE, everyone in the gov is retiring... and if you know a bit you're scheduled to move up quick. 40% of the federal workforce is getting close to retirement age within the next 1 to 5 years. That.. and some of the current people who are my counterparts are rather dense, having just come up in the mentality of "I don't need to learn anything, just keep doing what I'm doing and get a check." Since I'm actively seeking out answers to problems instead of passing the buck or sweeping it under the carpet.. and since I am not yet embittered toward the job I'm looking rather good at reviews.
It has turned out to be a great opportunity though. So, to 'quickly' answer your questions.. no I didn't have certs to get the job, it was bottom rung that quickly advanced. I got into the security aspect because in our regional office I'm the only one interested in security, and hense keeping up to date on it.
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"Bad.. Good? I'm the guy with the gun"
phn1x
Newbie
Offline
Posts: 26
Re: I need some opinions.
«
Reply #39 on:
June 05, 2008, 08:39:26 PM »
I had no certs no experience, before the dot com bubble burst (I really hate that name) I saw an overwhelming amount of bootcamps starting to form and people were primarily after money. Somehow at 15 I saw this trend coming. When I was 17 I had my parents sign a waver and I joined the military. The military didn't ask for experience, degrees or anything. It's not for everyone but I have no regrets.
After 3 years and 4 months of service I left the AF, with 80% of a degree in CS, and about 3 years of experience working tier 3 administration. I was able to leverage that experience into a penetration testing job. Now, 7 years after I originally signed up I've got a degree that I didnt pay a dime for (monetarily wise) tons of experience, and im working through a masters degree that I've only paid about 1k for thus far. IT's an option I recommend. Navy / AF is the way to go for tech jobs, Army is wierd with Tech which they call Communications. With the Army you are a soldier first...
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Dengar13
Sr. Member
Offline
Posts: 380
Re: I need some opinions.
«
Reply #40 on:
June 05, 2008, 09:07:42 PM »
Quote from: phn1x on June 05, 2008, 08:39:26 PM
I had no certs no experience, before the dot com bubble burst (I really hate that name) I saw an overwhelming amount of bootcamps starting to form and people were primarily after money. Somehow at 15 I saw this trend coming. When I was 17 I had my parents sign a waver and I joined the military. The military didn't ask for experience, degrees or anything. It's not for everyone but I have no regrets.
After 3 years and 4 months of service I left the AF, with 80% of a degree in CS, and about 3 years of experience working tier 3 administration. I was able to leverage that experience into a penetration testing job. Now, 7 years after I originally signed up I've got a degree that I didnt pay a dime for (monetarily wise) tons of experience, and im working through a masters degree that I've only paid about 1k for thus far. IT's an option I recommend. Navy / AF is the way to go for tech jobs, Army is wierd with Tech which they call Communications. With the Army you are a soldier first...
What, no Marine Corps love?
Thanks for your service...thank goodness for the gold old GI Bill.
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A+, Net+, MCP, CEH
MCSE: Security/Messaging
MCSA: Security/Messaging
Former U.S. Marine and damn proud of it!
oneeyedcarmen
Full Member
Offline
Posts: 233
Klaatu, Borada,Necktie?
Re: I need some opinions.
«
Reply #41 on:
June 05, 2008, 09:53:41 PM »
Quote from: Dengar13
Thanks for your service...
Seconded, and thank you Dengar for your yours, and Chris and all the others out there...BUT, phn1x, you got your experience by volunteering to donate yourself for 4 years to the AF. Not everyone can, or more likely, is willing to do such.
Like g00d_4sh, I started at the bottom rung...even lower really, working as an intern at the National Aquarium in Baltimore...an UNPAID intern at 27 years of age. That was a little rough. But within 3 years, after having been picked up as a full-time employee, and making a few job changes, I'm doing pretty well (more than I've ever made on paper, though I was a bartender for 10 years and doing better then), am about 2 months shy of the experience requirement for my full CISSP certification and am THE security admin for a major healthcare organization in my area.
The certs help you get through the door, but working for free does an even better job of it.
Once you've got a cert or three that an HR
idiot
professional is looking for, the experience and your proven ability to learn and adapt are what move you along.
Good luck. Stick around here and learn from these guys like so many of us have, and you'll go far. Just don't expect to be making $60K over night because the (unnamed) training company on the radio commercials tells you that you will be. Fact is, if you do your job, and well, you'll get there soon enough.
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Reluctant CISSP, Certified ASS
geekyone
Full Member
Offline
Posts: 180
Re: I need some opinions.
«
Reply #42 on:
June 05, 2008, 10:52:00 PM »
A good alternative to full time military duty if you can't or don't want to sign up for that is the National Guard. I was in the AF National Guard for 6 years and it is a great way to get experience with IT or anything for that matter. Not to mention the college benefits are nearly as good as full time active duty military. Well that is my recruitment speech for the day.
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CISSP, CEH, GPEN, GCIH, GCFA
g00d_4sh
Sr. Member
Offline
Posts: 394
Re: I need some opinions.
«
Reply #43 on:
June 06, 2008, 01:08:48 PM »
Yeah, starting at the top isn't generally an option for anyone. I'm rather pleased with my current position though, and though I'm not making as much as I did running my own business, the side benefits of working for the Feds makes up for it. I pondered military service for a bit, but I'm a tad old for that stuff anymore. :/ I don't have to worry about a draft, lets put it that way.
I have thought about the new cyber command though once I get more experience and whatnot. It just looks like a fun sub-branch of the AF, and they're throwing money at it like it's going out of style.
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"Bad.. Good? I'm the guy with the gun"
BillV
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 1892
Re: I need some opinions.
«
Reply #44 on:
June 06, 2008, 01:35:47 PM »
Quote from: g00d_4sh
have thought about the new cyber command though once I get more experience and whatnot. It just looks like a fun sub-branch of the AF, and they're throwing money at it like it's going out of style.
Funny you mention that. I just came across
this article regarding AF Cyber
earlier today. I was curious to see what they were looking for so I went into their online recruiter chat. What I was told was this:
"We are currently looking for people with bachelors degrees in computer engineering."
When I asked him about security testers, his reply was simply "what about them?" Then he re-emphasized what he had already told me by re-stating they are only interested in people with a bachelors in computer engineering.
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