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You are here: Home arrow Forum arrow Featuresarrow /rootarrow The Ethics of "Stealing" a WiFi Connection
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December 03, 2008, 05:28:50 PM *
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Author Topic: The Ethics of "Stealing" a WiFi Connection  (Read 17345 times)
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shawal
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« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2008, 04:02:56 PM »

Amazing how many people connect to open networks! as security aware/professionals would you do that? would you consider that is safe? if you trust your machine defenses, would you trust that you wouldn't be caught in the act, and the possibility of bad reputation?! ethical/unethical is secondary then. I have not gone through the Bruce URL yet, however i find the analogies could not fit 100% as was pointed out by some of the particpants. In brief i belive it is clearly unappropraite if somehow the service is affected, or cost is involved, or if there was a clear indication that you are not wanted as in using a simple wep encryption for example, other wise it is debatable however is it wise? I do not believe so unless you are unemployed and could not afford EDGE/GPRS/3G or any other subscribed wireless service  Cool
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rance
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« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2008, 04:14:42 PM »

<snip> ...other wise it is debatable

Personally, IMHO, there's no debate about it.  If you hop on someone elses wireless network, you are accessing a private network.  Unless you have specific permission to use it, you're breaking the law*.

The one downfall of consumer wireless access points?  There is no acceptable use policy/banner presented when you connect to a WiFi network.  If there was such a thing on all consumer lever devices, I think it would make it a pretty open and shut case.

Until that happens, there's always that wiggle room of "oh, well, there was nothing that said I couldn't..."

But, if you have to wiggle, you're probably not on the right side of it anyway. Smiley
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ChrisG
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« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2008, 07:09:31 PM »

a public wifi hotspot is usable if you are careful about where you go and what you do, for example.  ssh'ing into your server and checking your email is perfectly ok on a public hotspot.
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shawal
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« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2008, 07:52:49 AM »

ChrisG,
I hope you do use ssh2 for all your connections. all your traffice including the intiation of the session is through this wireless access point. we know that ssh1 can be exploited and you can have mitm attack, dns can be intercepted and forced to go to a different server, ssl-vpn they can make you stop by a drive-by site proxy before you hit your target. so in essence there are things we know they are already in the public domain and doable. the things we do not know and people are capable of but quite about it is something else.  Embarrassed may be i am a bit over paranoid
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ChrisG
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« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2008, 08:23:27 AM »

hey dont get me wrong, paranoia is a good thing, but you have to get stuff done as well.

at a miniumum for us mere mortals just trying to get by the ssh key will change if there is any kind of MITM or DNS trickery and that should big flag to STOP and check things out.
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iSmith
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« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2008, 09:04:54 AM »

hah... we live next to a neighbor with an open wifi connection, and we all use it all the time. Smiley
unethical, huh?

The feds have been alearted and are on their way!   Grin
Nice joke, Rance.
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RoleReversal
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« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2008, 10:53:38 AM »

a public wifi hotspot is usable if you are careful about where you go and what you do, for example.  ssh'ing into your server and checking your email is perfectly ok on a public hotspot.

Depends on your interpretation. I read a story (Think it was on El Reg but can't find a link, I'll share if I can find it again) about a cafe that had a publicly available AP for its clients. As the story goes a road warrior who was a semi regular customer was running late for a meeting and couldn't remember the clients addressed. Parked (in a legally provided bay) outside the cafe to check his emails and was promptly 'escorted' to the local police station for 'hacking' releated offenses.

I'm not going to wade in on the legal/ethical issues as I'm yet to completely make my mind up, I end up agreeing with each argument. However this story should be a fairly stark warning. If you don't have explicit, preferably written, permission then it might be wise to go elsewhere or wait until your back to your own network.
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ChrisG
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« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2008, 11:39:55 AM »

i know this thread has like 3 discussions going on but by public i meant like starbucks or the airport where its free for all.  not jumping on your neighbor's wifi
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EmanoN
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« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2008, 12:34:23 PM »

Yeah right. I didnt know that CEH meant certified ethical hyprocrit! But now I know and thanks.
http://www.ethicalhacker.net/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,54/topic,1836.msg7329/#msg7329
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dean
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« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2008, 01:44:19 PM »

Another issue is that of 'Contributory Negligence' and 'Downstream Liability'. If a person makes use of another person's or company's network to attack someone else the question arises about whether or not the company that was used to launch the attack is responsible in some way. This is especially true if it was possible to prevent the illegal access in the first place. This goes for 'coffee shop' type locations providing open access as well.

While I don't know of any legal case about this. It's a very real possibility.

As to whether or not using an open AP is illegal or not:

http://www.p2pnet.net/story/12453

Some people seem to think it is.

dean
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eth3real
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« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2008, 02:08:28 PM »

Yeah right. I didnt know that CEH meant certified ethical hyprocrit! But now I know and thanks.
http://www.ethicalhacker.net/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,54/topic,1836.msg7329/#msg7329

What is that about? Knowing how to break WEP and WPA is part of pentesting. Pentesting means you have explicit consent from the owner, and of course you won't be coming back later just to get some free wifi.

Pentesting is to make sure someone can't just come up to your parking lot and break in for some free internet, or worse, access to your servers.

As with the wifi hotspots, there is nothing unethical about getting on a Starbucks or airport hotspot. Most of them nowadays will make you agree to a terms of use when you connect, and maybe give your email address. Naturally, if you violate the terms of use, it is no longer legal.
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shawal
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« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2008, 02:17:26 PM »

EmanoN.
 Roll Eyes ChrisG was caught in the act once, no need to point it to us new comers  Tongue
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g00d_4sh
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« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2008, 02:21:04 PM »

Ohh don't worry about EmanoN.  He just pops in every once in a while to make a new 'This is my last post' post where he flames or generally tries to dig up some controversy.  I think he's had like... 10 or so 'last posts' total?  Mabey more, I stopped keeping count.  He didn't like one of the responses ChrisG gave to one of his posts if I remember right, so he seems to keep an eye on anything he posts as well.  Kind of fun actually.  I consider him our resident forum Troll.  Every forum needs a troll.  Our's isn't overly active, he just pops in once in a while to blurt something, but he's always missed when he crawls back under the bridge.
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RoleReversal
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« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2008, 02:27:17 PM »

Yeah right. I didnt know that CEH meant certified ethical hyprocrit! But now I know and thanks.
http://www.ethicalhacker.net/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,54/topic,1836.msg7329/#msg7329

Not wanting to feed the troll but, EmanoN:

thanks for link, ChrisG has some nice instructions in that post. Cheers Chris Wink
(Or were you trying to make a point?)
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EmanoN
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« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2008, 03:25:22 PM »

Actually its more like 37 posts g00d_4sh and I am glad you all miss me.  BTW how do these monthly prizes get figured out? I can see that pseud0 deserved it but that other dude? Ha Ha.  Seemed liked g00d-4ash made a hell of a lot of posts last month and should have gotten it.  I love politics. And yeah I troll this site from time to time, that is when I am not busy hacking your mamas box! Hehe.
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