EH-Net

Been looking around and these boards are full of great advice, I was wondering if anyone had any for me

Im 23, live in the UK and looking to get into IT, In the last 3 months ive completed the A+, Network+ and Security+ exams no problem and im looking for a direction to go in next.

I dont have any IT related job experience however and I think this will be a big problem for me. Im keen to get into security based roles or even network administration and was contemplating several courses, such as CISSP, CEH or just going for CCNP. Im a very quick learner and eager to get to grips with another course, but I could do with some direction

Considering my situation, does anyone have any advice to offer?

Thanks

Honestly, and this has been said on many other threads out there, you would probably do best to get a help-desk type of job. It may not be sexy to be on the help-desk, but believe me when I say you will learn A LOT about all the technologies your company uses. This provides you with a baseline of knowledge to work with. It also hones your troubleshooting skills which you will use for the rest of your career!

I would then suggest working a few years at least in an operational role, ie system administrator, application developer, network administrator, etc. This should be based on your interests/skills. By working in this role, you get an understanding of what its like on the "front lines." I've found there are a lot of security-type folks that don't understand the demands on the operations-type folks. (I find myself doing this a lot too.) It also gives you a lot of hands-on training in your role of choice.

As far as certifications go, your best bet is the CISSP. It is recognized throughout the industry as the "gold standard", and a lot of doors will open based just on the one certification. There's nothing wrong with any of the others that you mentioned. They're just not the CISSP. Besides, you will have plenty of time throughout your career to do all of them!

Good luck! And welcome to EH-Net!!!

Remember that the CISSP has fairly substantial experience requirements. You can still be an associate if you pass the exam but don't meet the requirements. However, pursuing certifications in whatever discipline you're interested in would probably be a better start for someone just starting out.

Thanks a lot for the replies

I would love to work in a front-line type role, I enjoy getting my hands dirty, so to speak. I would just hate to work in a call centre, running through some pre-made diagnostic script on a screen. Im a good problem solver and enjoy the challenge of it immensely, its the main attraction of a career in IT for me.

I was hoping to try and skip the entry level phone tech support type roles by gaining enough certification to prove my knowledge. Im guessing that even if my CV is bursting with certs that im still destined to start at the bottom?

@aphelion

I'm not saying that you MUST start on the helpdesk. What I mean is that you can get a very good baseline of knowledge from the helpdesk positions. There are different types of helpdesks too. You do have the help desks where you are only allowed to read from a script, but you can also get on with a Corporate IT-type helpdesk where you're given more freedom to troubleshoot the issues and less rigid guidelines on your interaction. Its all about finding the right fit for you. I think probably one of the best environments to learn (in my experience, at least) is in a very small shop where you wear a lot of hats (ie. you are the helpdesk, network admin, system admin, application admin, etc.), but that's not for everyone!


@dynamik

I totally agree about the experience requirements of the CISSP. That's actually one of the reasons I don't have my CISSP yet. However, I've seen a number of people around EH-Net (I think j0rdy is one) that have their Associate CISSP. I never really knew that was an option when I first started...

ah excellent, Id really enjoy a jack of all trades type position, I can see how a range of responsibilities like that would help me gain a broad amount of experience.

Ive been searching around for jobs, as ill begin applying soon, but the job market isnt so great at the moment. What would you recommend cert wise that would help me get the sort of position im after? I was thinking maybe something vendor specific like the CCNA, but im really not sure which cert to persue next, thanks again for your help and advice, its greatly appreciated!

I'm currently the corporate IT person for an internet company, and I can say that I have expanded my skill set in this position and its not a bad place to start.  The pay is good, the benefits are nice, and I have plenty of time to play.  A lot of companies look for experience, so you might want to consider applying for help desk jobs just to get some hours. 
You may want to consider, I worked in a computer repair shop while I was going to college (making the "help desk" a natural and easy step up).  Also my company just hired a systems admin intern.  The computer repair shop or intern route don't pay great, but it can be a necessary evil. 

thanks mallaigh

Ive been running my own mini pc repair business for years! Literally everyone I know and everyone they know come to me with their pc problems, just a shame that doesnt count as on the job experience. I bet everyone on the forum has a similar story :p

I would happily accept a low wage if I thought the job would benefit my CV, Im under no illusion that ill be making any decent money for the next 3-5 years, so given my lack of experience it doesnt matter so much which cert I go for next?

I'd take some time and really figure out which direction you want to go in. Windows? *nix? Programming? Networking (Cisco/Juniper)? Databases? Web apps? You're really going to flounder and spin your wheels if you try to proceed with finding some direction.

I'd hold of on certs until you're ready to commit to something. If you just want to land a help-desk type job to get your foot in the door, check out the MCDST/MCITP:EST.

And to add what Dynamik said, I'd certainly count the experience you have in computer repair on your CV. You may not be running a full-fledged business out of your house, but as you stated it is a "pc repair business." It'd be on my resume/CV...

The A+, Network+, and Security+ combined with your pc repair experience are probably enough to get you in the door for the entry-level position with most companies. Its all about how you market yourself....

If you're starting out, you could volunteer your time just to get some experience, if you can afford to.

Whether you do it as volunteer or for small wage, I would recommend trying to get into a small-mid size business.  A lot of times you get your hands on way more things than if you were in a large organization.

Glad to help aphelion.  I want to add to what ziggy and yatz are saying.

Ziggy is right, your independent computer repairs count as experience, and if I were you I would put it on my resume.  You should put it on your resume if you current or prior jobs didn't involve computers, as it shows experience.

Like yatz said, smaller companies are also a great starting place.  The pay isn't as good as a larger company (a generalization), but you get exposed to a lot more.  You also have a better chance of working with systems admins, network admins, etc also you will get more exposure to other technologies. 

The corporate IT positions are a great starting place because you will get exposed to a lot of the basics of networks, systems, and security in a business environment.  That kind of experience you can't really get doing PC repairs. 

great advice guys, thanks :)

I did the Security+ using Labsim from www.testout.com

Ive written them an email and for an extra $200 they will set me up with CBT resources for these:

So I guess ill start looking for that "foot in the door" and crank out those certs in the meantime, I wasnt going to bother with CISSP just yet but its a good deal so I might as well

Although I was tempted to do the OSCP cert as it looks like a lot of fun, not to mention enlightening  ;D

Thanks again guys, I feel much more positive and focused about what im doing now

oh man, correction, for $605 they've given me:

MCITP, MCSE, MCTS, CCNP, CCNA, SSCP, CISSP, Linux+, Server+

Now I dont know where to start :/  ::)

Well, I do not think that the IT industry has been any better than the tourism industry, especially after the tsunami like recession which came unexpectedly. Chances are that we may not get what we actually desired for, at least until things settle down for some time. I suggest you make the options wider because there is no insurance that we may see a bright IT again, at least not for the next two years

I'm working on a 1st level (outsourced) help desk and have supported several major manufacturer products for end-users, where I've never used a pre-made diagnostic script ever.

I read about or listen to the problem which the customer has, and then I know what to try (aka troubleshoot) based on what the problem is or might be. The payment is typically insanely low within these jobs though. (But you can get food on the table each day.)

I'm not saying it's very challenging or fun, in fact it's the most boring job I've ever done to be completely honest but it has improved my soft skills a lot. Furthermore I'm also doing it, because it's better to have this within IT than nothing at all or perhaps "house cleaning".

I've done this for almost 2 years now as my daily job while doing the fun stuff after work in my own free time. I even did a shorter education within IT as System Administrator over 2 years where it was only focused on IT. Nothing else just IT  ;D That was fun but it didn't help me to get a job at all though.

I haven't gotten any certifications yet, but I'm still studying shellcode in order to complete the CTP (OSCE) examination from Offensive Security. I plan on taking a lot more certifications in the near future too of course, such as CISSP, CEH, OSCP, OSWP, and more  :)

Anyway, back to the topic.

It isn't easy to get a job within IT-security if you don't have any former experience, certifications nor education.

I've experienced that myself and the easiest way to get a "job" is to become a freelancer or start your own business if you have a vision you'd like to come true.

Good luck with all your certifications though, and your future job!  ;)

Well getting foot in the door is very very hard . A good place to start is join local chapters of OWASP or any hacking community in your city . Show'em your skills , participate and give some nice presentations .( this is how i landed in my first job ).

I guess my advice is pretty insane but it worked with me so i am sharing :)